Richas wrote:
> > Anyway I think it's totally missing the point saying producers
> now catering for 'chav' market 'misunderstand' porn. On the
> contrary they totally understand it, a bloke in his twenties
> wants to bash off to a movie with girls in it his own age he
> can imagine being with. I can totally understand why that's not
> appealing to someone say in late 30's over who yearns for
> curvry 80's lasses in perms getting rogered by blokes with big
> emoustaches....memories of his youth. But as you say like the
> 40 pluses have their Beatles c.d.'s the older porn market has
> their porn vids their for them. Why should the younger
> generation, with no interest in it be forced to watch it, or be
> patronised for having no interest in it?
>
As an old git of 30+ I have to say for me you could not be more wrong.
When I was 'growing up' Marylyn Chambers, for example, was a hotty. Have you seen her recently?
She may still appeal to some but give me a dose of Lolly Badcock, Lara Lee, Angel Long, Sahara etc anytime.
With regards to blokes in their 20's want to watch girls of his own age check out the threads and sites featuring the older models sorry to be patronising but you'll find your wrong again.
It aint the age that matters it's the models looks, how she performs etc for young and old alike.
30+ and jaded with todays porno?
Re: meeting of the middle aged moaners
"With regards to blokes in their 20's want to watch girls of his own age check out the threads and sites featuring the older models sorry to be patronising but you'll find your wrong again"
lol...fair enough I'm well aware theres a market for everything in porn. Some old people like young girls, some young lads like old ladies, perhaps I was over generalising and not clear enough. The point I was in fact making was that the kind of porn that seems to be here touted as the only 'real' porn is in reality a niche market that appeals to the older generation and a few fetishes from the younger. The generality of porn is filled with younger ladies because that's what most men, old and young want. I remember 80's porn...and personally I think it was pretty shite. However I accept others don't, that's just my opinion. The fact is though I'm part of the majority who like and much prefer the porn of today, that's why the majority of porn is made that way. Like all business it's market driven. You can bet your life if people really wanted subtle eroticism, 80's perms and long storylines in their wank flicks that's exaclty what they'd be getting. The fact is they don't though. Digi-guy and others seem to look down and detest guys such as me for liking straight foward, fairly brainless porn, watching for the girls and the sex, rather than the stroyline. They also clearly have very different taste in women, which is fair enough. But why look down and slag it off. It's even been said here that mainstream porn today isnt even really porn, just because it's not to one persons personal taste! Exuse me but isn't that a vast over estimation of one's personal importance? If some one doesn't personally like something it's their opinion. Why the need to insult all that do like it? the person making the statement is implying their, totally subjective, opinion is in some way better than those feel differently, when it's just their opinion.
Alot of the girls of yester year held in great esteem here, highly touted, I feel are not that great, but I understand it's only my opinion and would never dream of saying others who don't agree are somehow ignorant or less sophitisicated? I personally do feel like all other things, music, culture fashion, it is alot down to an age gap.
Porn is market driven, ok there niche markets too, but the mainstreams going to be what the mainstream wants, and I personally don't see why that upsets some people, what they wan't is still there, and if it isn't go make it. Being a critic is the easiest thing in the world at the end of the day, and the most pointless...go and create.
lol...fair enough I'm well aware theres a market for everything in porn. Some old people like young girls, some young lads like old ladies, perhaps I was over generalising and not clear enough. The point I was in fact making was that the kind of porn that seems to be here touted as the only 'real' porn is in reality a niche market that appeals to the older generation and a few fetishes from the younger. The generality of porn is filled with younger ladies because that's what most men, old and young want. I remember 80's porn...and personally I think it was pretty shite. However I accept others don't, that's just my opinion. The fact is though I'm part of the majority who like and much prefer the porn of today, that's why the majority of porn is made that way. Like all business it's market driven. You can bet your life if people really wanted subtle eroticism, 80's perms and long storylines in their wank flicks that's exaclty what they'd be getting. The fact is they don't though. Digi-guy and others seem to look down and detest guys such as me for liking straight foward, fairly brainless porn, watching for the girls and the sex, rather than the stroyline. They also clearly have very different taste in women, which is fair enough. But why look down and slag it off. It's even been said here that mainstream porn today isnt even really porn, just because it's not to one persons personal taste! Exuse me but isn't that a vast over estimation of one's personal importance? If some one doesn't personally like something it's their opinion. Why the need to insult all that do like it? the person making the statement is implying their, totally subjective, opinion is in some way better than those feel differently, when it's just their opinion.
Alot of the girls of yester year held in great esteem here, highly touted, I feel are not that great, but I understand it's only my opinion and would never dream of saying others who don't agree are somehow ignorant or less sophitisicated? I personally do feel like all other things, music, culture fashion, it is alot down to an age gap.
Porn is market driven, ok there niche markets too, but the mainstreams going to be what the mainstream wants, and I personally don't see why that upsets some people, what they wan't is still there, and if it isn't go make it. Being a critic is the easiest thing in the world at the end of the day, and the most pointless...go and create.
Re: meeting of the middle aged moaners
Richas wrote:
Alot of the girls of yester year held in great esteem here,
highly touted, I feel are not that great, but I understand it's only my opinion and would never dream of saying others who
don't agree are somehow ignorant or less sophitisicated?
Oh soz my mistake I thought that was what you were doing when you were calling the guy's who only like the 80's porn lol.
I'll go and sit in a quiet corner now.
Alot of the girls of yester year held in great esteem here,
highly touted, I feel are not that great, but I understand it's only my opinion and would never dream of saying others who
don't agree are somehow ignorant or less sophitisicated?
Oh soz my mistake I thought that was what you were doing when you were calling the guy's who only like the 80's porn lol.
I'll go and sit in a quiet corner now.
-
Officer Dibble
- Posts: 2372
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: meeting of the middle aged moaners
?I remember 80's porn...and personally I think it was pretty shite.?
What was wrong with it? No chavs?
?The fact is though I'm part of the majority who like and much prefer the porn of today,?
"Majority"? How do you know that? And the ?majority of whom, precisely? For which majority do you speak? Video and DVD buyers? Subscribers to websites? Or viewers of ?Big Brother?.
You?re one of the more reasonable, rational, knowledgeable and coherent posters around these parts, Richas, so I?ll always disposed to give you a fair hearing. But the posts you have made in this thread seem to have a whining, boo-hoo, it?s not fair, quality about them ? simply because we are raining on your porno parade.
You made some sweeping statements about what porn fans like and want. But I?m guessing that these are just your assumptions? However, having been in the porno biz for the last 15 years, I feel that my ?opinions? on the matter carry a little more weight. Over the course of this period (as you might expect) I?ve taken note of who these porn fans are and what they like to buy ? my findings are that 99% of buyers are male, most arein their 30?s and 40?s, they have healthy disposable incomes and they do not really care for the chav porn you are championing. These are not subjective opinions; they are the facts as I have experienced them. The predominance of chav porn in the UK is down to all sorts of complex, interacting, social, cultural and economic factors ? we can?t do sophisticated, we?re embarrassed by it, we want everything for nothing, price comes before quality and we simply accept whatever we are given. But I haven?t met anyone outside the confines of this forum who is really enthusiastic about chav porn, though many may take it just because it?s there, in the same way that they would take Dorcel and Salireri movies, if that were all that the market was offering them. But it?s much easier and cheaper to make chav porn ? so, if the punters don?t care either way, that?s what they get.
But how do you know you really like chav porn? We tend to ?like? what we are given. Look at it like this ? When I was a young lad I got fed on those great British staples of the 60?s ? chip butties, bread and dripping, bread and jam, fish fingers, tomato ketchup etc. I though it was great, and was comforted to know that my parents and grandparents were protecting me from that frightening ?foreign muck?. However, as I grew up my tastes became ever more sophisticated, I found myself drawn to the exotic, complex and spicy tastes of foreign food. Nowadays, with hindsight, I can clearly see that southern European cooking is far superior to the 1960?s proletarian nosh that I then, naively, thought was the bee?s knees. I now look back in horror at those austere tea times of gastronomic ghastliness.
The point I am making is that it?s only when we can see the bigger picture that we can make valued judgments. You?ve admitted you?re a young chap, you?ve grown up with gonzo and chav porn. You?ve been ?imprinted? with it. It?s been pushed down your throat ? we like what we are given. But you haven?t had the time to see the range of stuff us ?middle-aged moaners? have seen. You never felt it?s power and resonance in the ages that spawned it (very different vibes from those of today). You haven?t had time to sit back and contemplate it all. But, I have. Which is another reason why I can stand back and make judgments ? this is better than that, they are better then them. You know, everything is subjective to the individual, but sometimes you just gotta come down off the fence and say that 'this is better than that'. Is ?The Godfather? better than ?Thunderbirds?? Is Beethoven better than Westlife? Most mature rational people would say, yes, of course they are. The little boy and little girl might disagree ? but what do they know?
Don?t just take my word for it, mi old porn pal Jim (aka Phil McCavity) will tell ya. I?ve known Jim almost as long as I?ve been in porn. He knows the biz inside out and has worked with porno legends the world over. If he says something you know you can take it to the bank and he?s just pointed out that the biggest selling video in the last couple of years was a Linzi Dawn video
Now, what you immediately notice about Linzi is that she is all tit and bum, she?s even got a waist. She?s a mid 90?s model and not at all typical of your contemporary, generic, scrawny blonde, tattooed, chav porn star. I?m not at all surprised to hear this, as my punters have always shown a marked preference for glamorous, individual looking, stars who have notable tits, bums or preferably both.
But if you really like chav porn and want to champion it then, instead of complaining about us complainers, you should make your case. Explain why it?s so groovy.
For instance, maybe you should point out examples of contemporary British porn stars that are not chavs or otherwise ?chavey?. You should point out stars who are paragons of femininity, charm and grace as well as having traffic stopping looks.
You should point out the contemporary ?stars? we have overlooked, who have unequivocally feminine bodies, like, for instance, the tits of Stacey Owen, the arse of Misty McCain or the total package of Niki Platts.
You should point out examples of stars that can dazzle one with their imaginative sartorial style, their elegant, immaculately groomed looks, their admirable mastery of subtle make-up and tasteful accessorizing.
You should explain why we should appreciate the umpteen new movies that feature blas?? mechanical, eroticism free humping, (and superfluous pseudo sexual practices) carried out with the demeanor of those who are ?having a laugh?.
Maybe us middle-aged moaners have missed all this? Maybe we don?t get it? This is one instance where I?d welcome being proved wrong.
Officer Dibble
What was wrong with it? No chavs?
?The fact is though I'm part of the majority who like and much prefer the porn of today,?
"Majority"? How do you know that? And the ?majority of whom, precisely? For which majority do you speak? Video and DVD buyers? Subscribers to websites? Or viewers of ?Big Brother?.
You?re one of the more reasonable, rational, knowledgeable and coherent posters around these parts, Richas, so I?ll always disposed to give you a fair hearing. But the posts you have made in this thread seem to have a whining, boo-hoo, it?s not fair, quality about them ? simply because we are raining on your porno parade.
You made some sweeping statements about what porn fans like and want. But I?m guessing that these are just your assumptions? However, having been in the porno biz for the last 15 years, I feel that my ?opinions? on the matter carry a little more weight. Over the course of this period (as you might expect) I?ve taken note of who these porn fans are and what they like to buy ? my findings are that 99% of buyers are male, most arein their 30?s and 40?s, they have healthy disposable incomes and they do not really care for the chav porn you are championing. These are not subjective opinions; they are the facts as I have experienced them. The predominance of chav porn in the UK is down to all sorts of complex, interacting, social, cultural and economic factors ? we can?t do sophisticated, we?re embarrassed by it, we want everything for nothing, price comes before quality and we simply accept whatever we are given. But I haven?t met anyone outside the confines of this forum who is really enthusiastic about chav porn, though many may take it just because it?s there, in the same way that they would take Dorcel and Salireri movies, if that were all that the market was offering them. But it?s much easier and cheaper to make chav porn ? so, if the punters don?t care either way, that?s what they get.
But how do you know you really like chav porn? We tend to ?like? what we are given. Look at it like this ? When I was a young lad I got fed on those great British staples of the 60?s ? chip butties, bread and dripping, bread and jam, fish fingers, tomato ketchup etc. I though it was great, and was comforted to know that my parents and grandparents were protecting me from that frightening ?foreign muck?. However, as I grew up my tastes became ever more sophisticated, I found myself drawn to the exotic, complex and spicy tastes of foreign food. Nowadays, with hindsight, I can clearly see that southern European cooking is far superior to the 1960?s proletarian nosh that I then, naively, thought was the bee?s knees. I now look back in horror at those austere tea times of gastronomic ghastliness.
The point I am making is that it?s only when we can see the bigger picture that we can make valued judgments. You?ve admitted you?re a young chap, you?ve grown up with gonzo and chav porn. You?ve been ?imprinted? with it. It?s been pushed down your throat ? we like what we are given. But you haven?t had the time to see the range of stuff us ?middle-aged moaners? have seen. You never felt it?s power and resonance in the ages that spawned it (very different vibes from those of today). You haven?t had time to sit back and contemplate it all. But, I have. Which is another reason why I can stand back and make judgments ? this is better than that, they are better then them. You know, everything is subjective to the individual, but sometimes you just gotta come down off the fence and say that 'this is better than that'. Is ?The Godfather? better than ?Thunderbirds?? Is Beethoven better than Westlife? Most mature rational people would say, yes, of course they are. The little boy and little girl might disagree ? but what do they know?
Don?t just take my word for it, mi old porn pal Jim (aka Phil McCavity) will tell ya. I?ve known Jim almost as long as I?ve been in porn. He knows the biz inside out and has worked with porno legends the world over. If he says something you know you can take it to the bank and he?s just pointed out that the biggest selling video in the last couple of years was a Linzi Dawn video
Now, what you immediately notice about Linzi is that she is all tit and bum, she?s even got a waist. She?s a mid 90?s model and not at all typical of your contemporary, generic, scrawny blonde, tattooed, chav porn star. I?m not at all surprised to hear this, as my punters have always shown a marked preference for glamorous, individual looking, stars who have notable tits, bums or preferably both.
But if you really like chav porn and want to champion it then, instead of complaining about us complainers, you should make your case. Explain why it?s so groovy.
For instance, maybe you should point out examples of contemporary British porn stars that are not chavs or otherwise ?chavey?. You should point out stars who are paragons of femininity, charm and grace as well as having traffic stopping looks.
You should point out the contemporary ?stars? we have overlooked, who have unequivocally feminine bodies, like, for instance, the tits of Stacey Owen, the arse of Misty McCain or the total package of Niki Platts.
You should point out examples of stars that can dazzle one with their imaginative sartorial style, their elegant, immaculately groomed looks, their admirable mastery of subtle make-up and tasteful accessorizing.
You should explain why we should appreciate the umpteen new movies that feature blas?? mechanical, eroticism free humping, (and superfluous pseudo sexual practices) carried out with the demeanor of those who are ?having a laugh?.
Maybe us middle-aged moaners have missed all this? Maybe we don?t get it? This is one instance where I?d welcome being proved wrong.
Officer Dibble
Re: meeting of the middle aged moaners
Dibble I'm glad to hear you've enjoyed some of my other posts, and I likewise agree with you on a great many other things...but unfortunately not this! Why do I like 'chav' porn? I guess because it's real, and that's what I want from my porn realism. Most girls aged 18-30 are like that, well I live in a very working class area, so maybe that's a generalisation...but hey you know what I mean. I'm just the kind of guy who's never really like perms, and the whole 80's style which was other the top glamour, make up etc. I've always prefered realism. I tend to go for girls with a 'cute' look, rather than drop dead 'glamorous' girls. I much prefer Rebekah Jordan to Stacey Owen. As for the sytle of girls, well basically the point I was making was how can you have 80's style girls in 2000+ porn? The girls relflect the era and is bound to change.
I guess it does also come down to what you want from your porn or how you even understand porn? I mean I own many so called 'erotic' masterpieces such as Last Tango in Paris, and can appreciate them, but they are not Porn to me. Porn to me is rough and ready....and I'm afraid I do like it that way! But why is that a big deal, surely the market is big enough to cater for all tastes and what comes out reflects what people want? I don't get this idea nobody wants chav porn but its forced on us by the producers....Why would they do that? and why would it sell? Perhaps also it comes down to a 'distaste' for chav culture, which is fairly natural for older generation. When has an older generation nto viewed a younger generation with contempt? Chav culture surely is just that youth culture? Working class youth culture? or maybe just working class culture? Ok it's loud brash and untimes unpleasant...but surely it's always been? I like seeing confident girls, girls with attitude who can match men at their own game...but at same time like timid girls too in fact. Again the markets surely big and versatile enought to provide me both? Agreed a fair bit of the chav culture is very unpleasant and unsightly..the lizzie bardsly reality tv types...but seriously....which girls are we referring to as being like that? The girls I watch may not be rich, sophisticated, and bursting with a levels, but they are pretty non the less ordinary working class lasses down to earth, and it's that realism that does it for me. I just can't fantasise about girls who frankly are way above my league and probably wouldnt give me the time of day except as a piece of rough! Doesn't turn me on in any way shape or form...again though I'm not arguing for that type of porn not to be made just because I don't like it, but if others want it so bad why isn't it? If your right Dibble and that's where the real demand lays and it's going unfulfilled..surelty theres an absolute goldmine there waiting to be tapped by the canny producer who fills the void?
I guess it does also come down to what you want from your porn or how you even understand porn? I mean I own many so called 'erotic' masterpieces such as Last Tango in Paris, and can appreciate them, but they are not Porn to me. Porn to me is rough and ready....and I'm afraid I do like it that way! But why is that a big deal, surely the market is big enough to cater for all tastes and what comes out reflects what people want? I don't get this idea nobody wants chav porn but its forced on us by the producers....Why would they do that? and why would it sell? Perhaps also it comes down to a 'distaste' for chav culture, which is fairly natural for older generation. When has an older generation nto viewed a younger generation with contempt? Chav culture surely is just that youth culture? Working class youth culture? or maybe just working class culture? Ok it's loud brash and untimes unpleasant...but surely it's always been? I like seeing confident girls, girls with attitude who can match men at their own game...but at same time like timid girls too in fact. Again the markets surely big and versatile enought to provide me both? Agreed a fair bit of the chav culture is very unpleasant and unsightly..the lizzie bardsly reality tv types...but seriously....which girls are we referring to as being like that? The girls I watch may not be rich, sophisticated, and bursting with a levels, but they are pretty non the less ordinary working class lasses down to earth, and it's that realism that does it for me. I just can't fantasise about girls who frankly are way above my league and probably wouldnt give me the time of day except as a piece of rough! Doesn't turn me on in any way shape or form...again though I'm not arguing for that type of porn not to be made just because I don't like it, but if others want it so bad why isn't it? If your right Dibble and that's where the real demand lays and it's going unfulfilled..surelty theres an absolute goldmine there waiting to be tapped by the canny producer who fills the void?
Re: 30+ and jaded with todays porno?
A friend and myself have said the same a few times recently.
Maybe it is partly because it is difficult to do anything different these days, or is it because often the girls don't seem come over with the same level of enthusiasm?
Another issue is with so much CCTV any outdoor scenes, and I'm thinking about flashing as much as two person action, are much more risky.
Certainly we find looking back at older films more interesting than many recent releases.
Maybe it is partly because it is difficult to do anything different these days, or is it because often the girls don't seem come over with the same level of enthusiasm?
Another issue is with so much CCTV any outdoor scenes, and I'm thinking about flashing as much as two person action, are much more risky.
Certainly we find looking back at older films more interesting than many recent releases.
Re: 30+ and jaded with todays porno?
If it were just the same old girls getting naked and doing the same old stuff, then I'd not be watching any porn .... and g/g stuf fis ok once or twice, but I can take or leave most of it.. So the advent of the more extreme and endless new faces is the only thing that keeps me interested. Where as the girls you mention are good to watch ... for me half a dozen times is enough, then time for something different.
Re: 30+ and jaded with todays porno?
Having seen 'Sensations' by Lasse Braun as an early porn viewing experience, in the early 80s, I recently watched it again and I think the erotic content has stood the test of time. From that era mostly I prefer the European stuff but then sometimes a little bit of American comes along like ' Secretary Seka' on an old 'Swedish Erotica' loop and that seems still quite watchable!
alex
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one eyed jack
- Posts: 12418
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Re: meeting of the middle aged moaners
Richas wrote:
....surely theres an absolute goldmine there waiting to be tapped by the canny producer who fills the void?
The thing is, it is being produced. Like yourself I don't know what the problem is. If that is your thing then Viv Thomas is the first place I would steer a man too.
As for girls, I can name loads that are glamorous and on the scene today...
....surely theres an absolute goldmine there waiting to be tapped by the canny producer who fills the void?
The thing is, it is being produced. Like yourself I don't know what the problem is. If that is your thing then Viv Thomas is the first place I would steer a man too.
As for girls, I can name loads that are glamorous and on the scene today...
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