Just got back from BBFC xmas party, gave them our views (amazed they invite me at all). But the main topic(round me) I am sure will interest you all. How would the disbanding of the 18R clasification suit everyone,
Start of topic views please,
Phil McC
BBFC Topic
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woodgnome
Re: BBFC Topic
if it means 'r18' material becomes as accessible as '18' classified stuff - i.e. you can rent it at the video store and purchase it via mail order - that would resolve just about every gripe i have.
did you get the feeling this is a live option, or was it just a conversation piece?
did you get the feeling this is a live option, or was it just a conversation piece?
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marcusallen
Re: BBFC Topic
R18 or anything else they care to stick a label on-my main beef with them is that they tell me who I can and cannot sell to. The very thought of putting even more money into the swollen coffers of Sullivan makes me sick. The very ideal of the BBFC is outdated in this age. Take out the sicko's sure. Let the rest of the consenting asult population determine what they want to watch, by their own standards.
Bt the way, did they disclose where the ?11.25 per min. goes?
Bt the way, did they disclose where the ?11.25 per min. goes?
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woodgnome
Re: BBFC Topic
if everything currently classified as r18 becomes plain old 18, you'll be free to distribute through whoever you like. you wouldn't be restricted to using ds or anyone else, for that matter!
obviously, 18 material would have to be rented or sold responsibly by newsagents, vid stores, etc (probably special conditions covering the display of h/c material) but the rules affectng distribution of your product, should be no different to those applying to 'lethal weapon 9', etc.
otherwise, why bother changing the classifications at all?
re. the bbfc - totally agree. producers should be allowed to classify their own material, as long as they comply with existing codes covering the various age groups.
if they breach the guidelines, the authorities can prosecute them. simple enough!
obviously, 18 material would have to be rented or sold responsibly by newsagents, vid stores, etc (probably special conditions covering the display of h/c material) but the rules affectng distribution of your product, should be no different to those applying to 'lethal weapon 9', etc.
otherwise, why bother changing the classifications at all?
re. the bbfc - totally agree. producers should be allowed to classify their own material, as long as they comply with existing codes covering the various age groups.
if they breach the guidelines, the authorities can prosecute them. simple enough!
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joe king
Re: BBFC Topic
R18 is in a sense redundant. I can order from abroad and get a dvd that might get an R18 cert. To get an R18 in this country I have to go to the local sex shop (approx 80 miles away).
If they get R18s in the local HMV then maybe I'd be happy -they might have to change the packaging.
The actual guidelines for R18 are an utter mess. They use the concept of harm to justify any cuts. This (the concept of harm) is in a sense meaningless. If sex can give you aids, then this harm should be cut. If someone can smoke in a movie (18 cert or below) then the concept of harm is either very subjective (you can only be harmed after 60 years of smoking) or used to justify illogical cuts. If fistfucking hasn't been prosecuted as obscene (which they seem to imply) then why cut it? If medical advice says there maybe harm if a hand is inserted fully into the vagina then why should this be generalised to all instances of fisting? A woman who has had a baby has had her womb stretched and in this case it would be less 'harmfull' in these cases. So maybe they should only include fisting of women who have had children? How many medical 'experts' do they have? I doubt whether they would be of one mind on this.
If they get R18s in the local HMV then maybe I'd be happy -they might have to change the packaging.
The actual guidelines for R18 are an utter mess. They use the concept of harm to justify any cuts. This (the concept of harm) is in a sense meaningless. If sex can give you aids, then this harm should be cut. If someone can smoke in a movie (18 cert or below) then the concept of harm is either very subjective (you can only be harmed after 60 years of smoking) or used to justify illogical cuts. If fistfucking hasn't been prosecuted as obscene (which they seem to imply) then why cut it? If medical advice says there maybe harm if a hand is inserted fully into the vagina then why should this be generalised to all instances of fisting? A woman who has had a baby has had her womb stretched and in this case it would be less 'harmfull' in these cases. So maybe they should only include fisting of women who have had children? How many medical 'experts' do they have? I doubt whether they would be of one mind on this.
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David J
Re: BBFC Topic
Speaking as a consumer rather than a producer, I would be cautious about scrapping R18. I am amazed at how much the BBFC allow, and the general principle behind the guidelines (i.e. no violence or coercion) seems sensible if you are going to have any guidelines at all. I agree the ban on pissing is silly, but for most viewers I guess that is a very marginal issue.
Of course, if the choice is between R18 and complete freedom, I would prefer complete freedom, but the choice is more likely to be between R18 and David Blunkett urging Plod to prosecute whatever the Dail Mail is campaigning against.
Of course, if the choice is between R18 and complete freedom, I would prefer complete freedom, but the choice is more likely to be between R18 and David Blunkett urging Plod to prosecute whatever the Dail Mail is campaigning against.
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joe king
Re: BBFC Topic
(i.e. no violence or coercion)
ummm...
La Dolce Vita cert 15, at 2h 36m 30s Marcello Mastroianni seems to be drunk at a late night party, he uses a woman like a horse and slaps her bottom, she collapses while walking on her knees, Marcello pulls her by her hair off the floor to the seating position and starts slapping her face. He later pours some water on her and slaps her face again. This woman who seems drunk has feathers stuck to her face.
DIRTY ANAL KELLY IN ROME 2 - R18
(To obtain this category cuts of 7m 17s were required.
Some or all of these cuts were substitutions.
The cuts were Compulsory
Cuts required to explicit sex scenes in which women and men are hit, spat at, appear to be in pain, or have their head forced into a toilet bowl. Cuts are in accordance with BBFC guidelines on R18 material.
Runtime 119m 11s
)
So, what is the difference?
ummm...
La Dolce Vita cert 15, at 2h 36m 30s Marcello Mastroianni seems to be drunk at a late night party, he uses a woman like a horse and slaps her bottom, she collapses while walking on her knees, Marcello pulls her by her hair off the floor to the seating position and starts slapping her face. He later pours some water on her and slaps her face again. This woman who seems drunk has feathers stuck to her face.
DIRTY ANAL KELLY IN ROME 2 - R18
(To obtain this category cuts of 7m 17s were required.
Some or all of these cuts were substitutions.
The cuts were Compulsory
Cuts required to explicit sex scenes in which women and men are hit, spat at, appear to be in pain, or have their head forced into a toilet bowl. Cuts are in accordance with BBFC guidelines on R18 material.
Runtime 119m 11s
)
So, what is the difference?
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David J
Re: BBFC Topic
(a) violence in mainstream films is usually simulated, not real, otherwise the actors' unions would go mental. OK, there might be exceptions, and it's a long time since I saw Dolce Vita, so I don't know about your specific example
(b) in theory, and occasionally in practice, mainstream films have artistic merits to justify their more sensational elements
(c) again, I can't be sure about the specific example, but I don't suppose it was implied that Marcello being drunk and beating up women was an admirable thing, and
(d) nobody is wanking off because they find it sexually exciting.
In fact I am against censorship, but I don't think you will get very far by arguing that hard-core porn a la Rocco is the same as Fellini!
(b) in theory, and occasionally in practice, mainstream films have artistic merits to justify their more sensational elements
(c) again, I can't be sure about the specific example, but I don't suppose it was implied that Marcello being drunk and beating up women was an admirable thing, and
(d) nobody is wanking off because they find it sexually exciting.
In fact I am against censorship, but I don't think you will get very far by arguing that hard-core porn a la Rocco is the same as Fellini!
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joe king
Re: BBFC Topic
'la Rocco is the same as Fellini!'
Cultural snobbishness or artistic middleclass elitism? If fellini is 'ART' then he can do what he likes? Lady Chatterley's Lover's court case had the middleclass elitism argument (the lower orders are easily influenced - the middleclasses are educated and refined).
(a) - this is not simulated, the slapping might be relatively 'soft'.
(b)- have artistic merits. Whose artistic merits?
(c) - the party was an example of the 'decadent' lifestyles and environment that Marcello was part of and was 'criticised' by Fellini.
(d)how do you know that?
Cultural snobbishness or artistic middleclass elitism? If fellini is 'ART' then he can do what he likes? Lady Chatterley's Lover's court case had the middleclass elitism argument (the lower orders are easily influenced - the middleclasses are educated and refined).
(a) - this is not simulated, the slapping might be relatively 'soft'.
(b)- have artistic merits. Whose artistic merits?
(c) - the party was an example of the 'decadent' lifestyles and environment that Marcello was part of and was 'criticised' by Fellini.
(d)how do you know that?
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Goneblind
Re: BBFC Topic
Whilst I am against censorship in relation to depiction of adults in consensual sexual activity of whatever nature (why should film be treated differently from books where anything now goes) I would be cautious about supporting the abolition of 18R without knowing what is to replace it.
Our repressive system has moved very far very quickly and the 18R classification is a protection from prosecution for producers, distributors and retailers. Maybe the short term answer is to remove many of the restrictions on the sale of 18R material to remove the monopoly from the likes of Sullivan and his vastly over-priced chain of shops.
I doubt that our society is ready for hardcore appearing in HMV, Virgin or Blockbuster and the resulting uproar could set matters back years.
Our repressive system has moved very far very quickly and the 18R classification is a protection from prosecution for producers, distributors and retailers. Maybe the short term answer is to remove many of the restrictions on the sale of 18R material to remove the monopoly from the likes of Sullivan and his vastly over-priced chain of shops.
I doubt that our society is ready for hardcore appearing in HMV, Virgin or Blockbuster and the resulting uproar could set matters back years.