LABIA WARRIOR PRINCESS - EPISODE 1 - KILLER QUEEN
When submitted to the BBFC the work had a running time of 24m 6s.
To obtain this category cuts of 5m 32s were required. The cuts were Cuts for category.
Company chose to remove sight of dildo penetration of vagina in several instances that was clearly unsimulated. An R18 uncut was available to the company.
R18 videos may only be sold in licensed sex shops.
Why have it at 18 cert?
Why Big Jim, why?
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Dibble
Re: Why Big Jim, why?
To allow for wider (commercially viable) distribution and sales, I would hazard a guess.
Dibble
Dibble
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Big Jim
Re: Why Big Jim, why?
I'm afraid that Labia has kind of fallen between two stools. It was shot too hard for an 18 and too soft for an R18. The cuts that were made are from the TAC version (and we've had the ITC vs. BBFC discussion before).
If the normal TAC version was put out as an R18 there would have been cries of rip off, so the only other alternative is to put it out as an 18. Obviously, the fact that the BBFC are taking massive chunks out of it does bother me immensely as I would like people to see the show in it's entirity.
The good news is that I've switched to a 2 camera system so that the programmes are shot hard and soft. The bad news is that I sell full rights of my programmes to TAC and I have no say as to how it is then distributed. (European satellite,DVD, R18, etc.)
P.s. If they sell my shows on DVD, video, etc. I do not earn any extra money out of it. You guys will have to lobby TAC if you want to see the spice platinum stuff coming out as R18s.
If the normal TAC version was put out as an R18 there would have been cries of rip off, so the only other alternative is to put it out as an 18. Obviously, the fact that the BBFC are taking massive chunks out of it does bother me immensely as I would like people to see the show in it's entirity.
The good news is that I've switched to a 2 camera system so that the programmes are shot hard and soft. The bad news is that I sell full rights of my programmes to TAC and I have no say as to how it is then distributed. (European satellite,DVD, R18, etc.)
P.s. If they sell my shows on DVD, video, etc. I do not earn any extra money out of it. You guys will have to lobby TAC if you want to see the spice platinum stuff coming out as R18s.
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vila
Re: Why Big Jim, why?
And that won't happen, will it? Because then the suckers like me who they depend on for their rip-off subscriptions would just buy the vids instead.
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Big Jim
Re: Why Big Jim, why?
I'm sorry that you feel that the subscription is a rip-off and that you think you are a 'sucker' for subscribing. Myself and TAC never see the viewers in that way.
But I think we all know why a lot of material never goes out on R18 - it's been discussed many times on this forum and let's just say that there might be a problem with distribution, lack of outlets, etc.
My life would certainly be a lot easier if the ITC relaxed it's guidelines and all I had to worry about was shooting the hard.
As for everyone going out to buy the vids instead, I don't know the sales figures for R18 videos in the UK, but I can tell you that both TAC and TVX get audiences that range from the tens of thousands to the hundreds of thousands.
If R18 videos were selling in the same numbers, I'm sure that the channels would have the stuff on the shelves quick smart.
But I think we all know why a lot of material never goes out on R18 - it's been discussed many times on this forum and let's just say that there might be a problem with distribution, lack of outlets, etc.
My life would certainly be a lot easier if the ITC relaxed it's guidelines and all I had to worry about was shooting the hard.
As for everyone going out to buy the vids instead, I don't know the sales figures for R18 videos in the UK, but I can tell you that both TAC and TVX get audiences that range from the tens of thousands to the hundreds of thousands.
If R18 videos were selling in the same numbers, I'm sure that the channels would have the stuff on the shelves quick smart.
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vila
Re: Why Big Jim, why?
Of course it's a rip-off.
Every year I pay TAC only a few pounds short of what a Spice Platinum sub would cost, but get only softcore.
I don't have the option of SP because I live in a flat and can't put up a dish, which also means I have to get TAC via ITV Digital.
This in turn means I don't get Playboy either, but do I get a reduced sub to compensate? Do I hell!
Why should I be discriminated against like that?
And all this because TAC (and TVX) don't have the bottle to stand up to the ITC and force them to respect UK and European law in the same way magazine and video regulators have had to.
Trouble is, as you say, they have probably tens of thousands of long-suffering customers because the British public is quite used to being ripped off, particularly where (so-called) porn is concerned.
That suits TAC and TVX because they can continue raking in the dosh without having to pay out the legal fees to take the ITC to the cleaners.
That's what makes it a rip-off.
Every year I pay TAC only a few pounds short of what a Spice Platinum sub would cost, but get only softcore.
I don't have the option of SP because I live in a flat and can't put up a dish, which also means I have to get TAC via ITV Digital.
This in turn means I don't get Playboy either, but do I get a reduced sub to compensate? Do I hell!
Why should I be discriminated against like that?
And all this because TAC (and TVX) don't have the bottle to stand up to the ITC and force them to respect UK and European law in the same way magazine and video regulators have had to.
Trouble is, as you say, they have probably tens of thousands of long-suffering customers because the British public is quite used to being ripped off, particularly where (so-called) porn is concerned.
That suits TAC and TVX because they can continue raking in the dosh without having to pay out the legal fees to take the ITC to the cleaners.
That's what makes it a rip-off.
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Big Jim
Re: Why Big Jim, why?
Hello again Vila,
I'm sorry to hear that you're less then pleased with the level of service you receive from ITV Digital. I am in a similar position except that I live in central London and can't even get ITV Digital and have to watch everything through cable (which seems to conk out on a regular basis).
No cable / satellite channel television channel will ever challenge the ITC - their word is law. Quite simply, they have the power to take away your license to broadcast. They are an extremely powerful organisation and TAC and TVX will always want to keep them onside.
The channels show softcore because that is what allowed at this time. If the channels could show hardcore, they would. The viewing figures would shoot through the roof and everyone would be very rich and the viewers would be very happy. And one day it might happen, but until then we have to work within the framework dictated to us.
In defence of TAC, they do try to push the boundries as much as possible as well as putting on brand new British shows every night of the week. A lot of UK producers (myself included) wouldn't be in business if it wasn't for the subscription channels.
As a result, the British porn scene in general has benefited from this 'explosion' in UK talent. More girls, more producers, more money and best of all, more product. Many of these producers also make tapes for sale on the R18 market, which without additional funding from the channels (buying the soft rights), may not have been possible.
Finally, I don't run TAC or TVX, I have no dealings with the ITC and I have nothing to do with ITV Digital. Obviously you are angry, but I am just one producer out of many and I may not be the right person to vent your frustrations on.
I'm sorry to hear that you're less then pleased with the level of service you receive from ITV Digital. I am in a similar position except that I live in central London and can't even get ITV Digital and have to watch everything through cable (which seems to conk out on a regular basis).
No cable / satellite channel television channel will ever challenge the ITC - their word is law. Quite simply, they have the power to take away your license to broadcast. They are an extremely powerful organisation and TAC and TVX will always want to keep them onside.
The channels show softcore because that is what allowed at this time. If the channels could show hardcore, they would. The viewing figures would shoot through the roof and everyone would be very rich and the viewers would be very happy. And one day it might happen, but until then we have to work within the framework dictated to us.
In defence of TAC, they do try to push the boundries as much as possible as well as putting on brand new British shows every night of the week. A lot of UK producers (myself included) wouldn't be in business if it wasn't for the subscription channels.
As a result, the British porn scene in general has benefited from this 'explosion' in UK talent. More girls, more producers, more money and best of all, more product. Many of these producers also make tapes for sale on the R18 market, which without additional funding from the channels (buying the soft rights), may not have been possible.
Finally, I don't run TAC or TVX, I have no dealings with the ITC and I have nothing to do with ITV Digital. Obviously you are angry, but I am just one producer out of many and I may not be the right person to vent your frustrations on.
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vila
Re: Why Big Jim, why?
Sorry, Big Jim, I didn't mean to give the impression that I hold you in any way responsible for the actions of TAC, TVX or ITV Digital - I was just using your exchange with Joe King as an excuse to have a general rant against the censorship we're still having to put up with even though my calendar says it's the 21st Century, and against the poor value for money some of us have to tolerate..
I disagree that the ITC are the law. The law is the law and the ITC are not above it.
Don't forget that when the first hardcore BBFC certs were issued, by some contortion of logic, they contrived to challenge their own panel's decision in court - and LOST!
Someone ought to have the guts to challenge the ITC under the European law, which is now UK law, that says material CANNOT be banned unless it can be PROVEN to be harmful. (Think for a minute: when was the last proscription order issued against a satellite channel?)
Until such a challenge is made and suceeds, as I believe it must, you, and all the other producers who try to give us punters what we want, have my every sympathy.
It can't be easy trying to please us while being pissed about by the ITC and, even now, to a lesser extent, the BBFC.
Meanwhile, keep up the good work, and I look forward to the day we can come on to this forum to discuss the first of your hardcore productions to be transmitted on TAC!
I disagree that the ITC are the law. The law is the law and the ITC are not above it.
Don't forget that when the first hardcore BBFC certs were issued, by some contortion of logic, they contrived to challenge their own panel's decision in court - and LOST!
Someone ought to have the guts to challenge the ITC under the European law, which is now UK law, that says material CANNOT be banned unless it can be PROVEN to be harmful. (Think for a minute: when was the last proscription order issued against a satellite channel?)
Until such a challenge is made and suceeds, as I believe it must, you, and all the other producers who try to give us punters what we want, have my every sympathy.
It can't be easy trying to please us while being pissed about by the ITC and, even now, to a lesser extent, the BBFC.
Meanwhile, keep up the good work, and I look forward to the day we can come on to this forum to discuss the first of your hardcore productions to be transmitted on TAC!
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Dunk Starr
Re: Why Big Jim, why?
Sorry to join this discussion so late, but I agree with Big Jim, I also have worked directly for TAC, as an editor cutting promos and conforming the nightly freeviews as part of a team. They are still pushing the boundaries back of what is acceptable. Of course you are right about the 21st century angle and what should be seen, but without reiterating much of what has been said in these discussions, the TAC in particular are continually pushing the boundaries towards broadcast freedom. Panties was one of the hardest uk programmes ever shown on TV and only scraped through itc because of the irregularities of law. TAC Saturday night live has frighteningly graphic sex, and will continue to harden.
I have cut a few series for them and I make it my peronal goal to make them as graphic as possible without the ITC clamping down, it may be that you haven't noticed the increase of sexual content, but believe me it has changed, even the freeviews are stronger than they have ever been. I've cut promos for a variety of BJ's programmes and they get more graphic every time. From titlicking school girls, to dildo weilding space whores.
If you feel you are being ripped off at ?6.99 or ?7.99 per month for around 100 hours of entertainment then you are unique, if so, you may also be able to the spice channels through itv-digital and cable. I also was part of the team that constructed the overall look of this channel, and it has some seriously hard stuff going on.
I have to further agree with BJ about funding producers, without the likes of the adult channel giving producers the chance to produce cable strength programming, there would be no british hardcore market at all, apart from the same old shit you used to get, which was zoomed pictures to cut out a knob. So pay subscription, enjoy the humour that people put into making british sex films, and stop looking for totally hardcore material, you want that.... buy R18s from mr. sullivan only, and watch the amount of productions decrease.
I have cut a few series for them and I make it my peronal goal to make them as graphic as possible without the ITC clamping down, it may be that you haven't noticed the increase of sexual content, but believe me it has changed, even the freeviews are stronger than they have ever been. I've cut promos for a variety of BJ's programmes and they get more graphic every time. From titlicking school girls, to dildo weilding space whores.
If you feel you are being ripped off at ?6.99 or ?7.99 per month for around 100 hours of entertainment then you are unique, if so, you may also be able to the spice channels through itv-digital and cable. I also was part of the team that constructed the overall look of this channel, and it has some seriously hard stuff going on.
I have to further agree with BJ about funding producers, without the likes of the adult channel giving producers the chance to produce cable strength programming, there would be no british hardcore market at all, apart from the same old shit you used to get, which was zoomed pictures to cut out a knob. So pay subscription, enjoy the humour that people put into making british sex films, and stop looking for totally hardcore material, you want that.... buy R18s from mr. sullivan only, and watch the amount of productions decrease.
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woodgnome
Re: Why Big Jim, why?
have to agree about the changing boundaries of what is broadcastable.
you only have to look at tapes of shows from a few years back, to see the difference. it's not that long ago when you couldn't even show dildos, fer cryin' aht lahd!
the move towards h/c via all means, is inevitable. the government will have been briefed by any number of 'experts' and civil servants about the canute-like posture that would result from trying to stem the h/c tide.
re. the production base afforded by satellite channels - you are, of course, spot on. peeps like big jim now use 2 cameras, where they used to use one, as does phil barry, etc. blighty's adult entertainment industry hasn't even attained adolescence yet, in terms of it's market potential but it's developing apace. whatever we feel about the current state of affairs, things WILL get better because our ability to access what we really want, is no longer within the gift of politicians.
besides, they've got bigger fish to fry, like trying to ensure the queen mum doesn't depart this world after spending 24hrs on a hospital trolley (query: if the old dear dies on the day of the world cup final and in-ger-land just happen to win it, how will the media cope?).
btw dunk starr, keep up the good work. your insider info is much appreciated.
you only have to look at tapes of shows from a few years back, to see the difference. it's not that long ago when you couldn't even show dildos, fer cryin' aht lahd!
the move towards h/c via all means, is inevitable. the government will have been briefed by any number of 'experts' and civil servants about the canute-like posture that would result from trying to stem the h/c tide.
re. the production base afforded by satellite channels - you are, of course, spot on. peeps like big jim now use 2 cameras, where they used to use one, as does phil barry, etc. blighty's adult entertainment industry hasn't even attained adolescence yet, in terms of it's market potential but it's developing apace. whatever we feel about the current state of affairs, things WILL get better because our ability to access what we really want, is no longer within the gift of politicians.
besides, they've got bigger fish to fry, like trying to ensure the queen mum doesn't depart this world after spending 24hrs on a hospital trolley (query: if the old dear dies on the day of the world cup final and in-ger-land just happen to win it, how will the media cope?).
btw dunk starr, keep up the good work. your insider info is much appreciated.