This is something I am attempting. I noticed a few threads next door on the other forum which I felt I wished to join in with. But I have decided not to bother as I only end up arguing the other side of each argument and appear as a lefty, queer, tree-hugging, hippie. Then as my blood sugar drops I turn into a right wing Dibble-loving clone of my grandfather and start longing for the return of the British Empire and ritual bashings of Johnny Foreigner.
So to cut a long story short. Very interesting threads next door gents. But please excuse me for not partaking. You are spared my usual drivel.
BTW Remember all the arguments on here before we attacked Iraq? Several people were convinced Saddam had some nasty weapons which were a threat to us. Erm.....he must have packed them in his travel bag when he fled. Either that or they didnt exist in the first place.
Where are XXl and the other pro war posters now? Still reckon Bush and Blair told us the truth? Or did the sight of young Ali with his arms blown off make you think twice about your blind faith in what our glorious leaders told us in the propoganda build up to getting rid of Saddam?
I really am curious to hear the opinions of those concerned.
And have America caught that lunatic who posted that anthrax yet? No because it was a fellow American who did that not a scary muslim. Was Tim McVey a Muslim? Nope he was a Gulf War "Hero" who killed a lot of his own people at Oklahoma.
Methinks the American histeria of the 1980s about "commies", "russkies" and assorted "reds under the bed" is now replaced with middle east type baddies. Cue a resergance of great new Hollywood war films where a younger Bruce Willis/Stallone/Schwarznegger takes on nasty middle east type villains rather than dodgy russian type chaps.
Self Restraint
-
Caractacus
Re: Self Restraint
Bear in mind, Stallone wanted to resurrect Rambo in order to have him invade Afghanistan and kick bin Laden's arse. There were a number of scary moments in the late 1990s and just before September 11. Oklahoma City the American press started blaming on Muslim extremists until the awful truth was revealed. And I don't recall an apology being issued to the Arab world, or US citizens of Arab origin who were treated with distrust and outright hatred. A passenger aircraft went down off the east coast, and Johnny Arab was again the main suspect until it became clear it was: a) and accident or; b) they'd shot it down themselves by mistake.
There's a lot in what you're saying, Magoo. Since the demise of the Soviet Union, America's secret service community in particular, with the press in tow, have been looking for a new bogeyman to point the finger at and to get huge amounts of funding to defend against. What better than a return to the good old thinking about Christians and Muslims? The added bonus is that the US's refusal to even condemn, let alone act upon, Israeli atrocities (and don't worry, I know how often Israel has been on the receiving end of atrocities itself) ensures that the Arab world will always view the US government with suspicion.
So much of US policy is dictated by big money contracts it's no wonder many people question the motives of the Bushes of this world.
There's a lot in what you're saying, Magoo. Since the demise of the Soviet Union, America's secret service community in particular, with the press in tow, have been looking for a new bogeyman to point the finger at and to get huge amounts of funding to defend against. What better than a return to the good old thinking about Christians and Muslims? The added bonus is that the US's refusal to even condemn, let alone act upon, Israeli atrocities (and don't worry, I know how often Israel has been on the receiving end of atrocities itself) ensures that the Arab world will always view the US government with suspicion.
So much of US policy is dictated by big money contracts it's no wonder many people question the motives of the Bushes of this world.
-
magoo
Re: Self Restraint
Ah A fellow insomniac. I thought I was talking to myself for a while there.
Dont get me started about Israel. They have breached more UN Rulings than anyone. I remember people on this forum sneering at the French for using their veto over Iraq but the fact is that the USA have used their veto more times than anyone. And always in order to stop Israel having to stop its human rights abuses and developement of weapons of mass destruction.
It makes me furious that the USA can witter on about rogue nations while it funds the biggest rogue nation in the Middle East ie Israel. Its not just the fact that the Israelis use torture and shoot dead kids who chuck stones but also the fact that they ignore international agreements on non-proliferation of nuclear weapons. And chemical and biological weapons too.
A fellow forumite recently wrote inter alia :- "I try not to be anti semetic but......."
I try not to be anti semetic too. But the Palestinian situation does not help. I have a very good mate who is a Red Sea Pedestrian Foreskinless Geek. When ever we get pissed I have a go at him about him bulldozing Palestinian houses and he usually gives me a swift punch before agreeing with me that he feels angry about what the Israelis do. His parents on the other hand think its great to see more settlers take land from the Arabs and if that involves some rich New York Jews buying some land on the West Bank at the expense of some dead Palastinians then great. Serves them right.
It is interesting that the one race who have been consistently despised and persecuted since the middle ages and before (long before politics came into it) have now become the persecutors. A classic case of the bullied turning into the bully IMHO.
Dont get me started about Israel. They have breached more UN Rulings than anyone. I remember people on this forum sneering at the French for using their veto over Iraq but the fact is that the USA have used their veto more times than anyone. And always in order to stop Israel having to stop its human rights abuses and developement of weapons of mass destruction.
It makes me furious that the USA can witter on about rogue nations while it funds the biggest rogue nation in the Middle East ie Israel. Its not just the fact that the Israelis use torture and shoot dead kids who chuck stones but also the fact that they ignore international agreements on non-proliferation of nuclear weapons. And chemical and biological weapons too.
A fellow forumite recently wrote inter alia :- "I try not to be anti semetic but......."
I try not to be anti semetic too. But the Palestinian situation does not help. I have a very good mate who is a Red Sea Pedestrian Foreskinless Geek. When ever we get pissed I have a go at him about him bulldozing Palestinian houses and he usually gives me a swift punch before agreeing with me that he feels angry about what the Israelis do. His parents on the other hand think its great to see more settlers take land from the Arabs and if that involves some rich New York Jews buying some land on the West Bank at the expense of some dead Palastinians then great. Serves them right.
It is interesting that the one race who have been consistently despised and persecuted since the middle ages and before (long before politics came into it) have now become the persecutors. A classic case of the bullied turning into the bully IMHO.
-
Caractacus
Re: Self Restraint
Good points, Magoo.
Interesting as well the way that Semetic has been hijacked by the Jews. I may be wrong (and no doubt you or JJ or someone will correct me if I am), but did the term Semetic not refer to people from that area of the world and can it not also be applied to the Arab inhabitants of the region? And, pushing this further, does that not suggest a certain amount of anti-semetism that we and the Americans have been guilty of?
Before anyone starts accusing, I am more than glad to see that Hussein was toppled and I'm glad that it was done. It's just a shame that innocent civilians, including women and children, had to be killed and maimed for it to happen.
Interesting as well the way that Semetic has been hijacked by the Jews. I may be wrong (and no doubt you or JJ or someone will correct me if I am), but did the term Semetic not refer to people from that area of the world and can it not also be applied to the Arab inhabitants of the region? And, pushing this further, does that not suggest a certain amount of anti-semetism that we and the Americans have been guilty of?
Before anyone starts accusing, I am more than glad to see that Hussein was toppled and I'm glad that it was done. It's just a shame that innocent civilians, including women and children, had to be killed and maimed for it to happen.
-
magoo
Re: Self Restraint
Carac (may I call you that for short?)
I think every sane person is glad that Saddam Hussain is gone. He was evil. But the motivation behind the Wests action is suspect IMHO. Especially now that a broadsheet newspaper (no not the Guardian Dibble!) is reporting plans to build an pipeline to Israel to pipe oil out of Iraq and the rumblings from the Pentagon about demanding to have permanent airbases in Iraq. Makes you think doesnt it?
Always be cynical about politicians. We are in this country by and large. But the Americans just have no concept of distrusting their government. To them that equates to being unpatriotic. Thats what infuriates me.
I think every sane person is glad that Saddam Hussain is gone. He was evil. But the motivation behind the Wests action is suspect IMHO. Especially now that a broadsheet newspaper (no not the Guardian Dibble!) is reporting plans to build an pipeline to Israel to pipe oil out of Iraq and the rumblings from the Pentagon about demanding to have permanent airbases in Iraq. Makes you think doesnt it?
Always be cynical about politicians. We are in this country by and large. But the Americans just have no concept of distrusting their government. To them that equates to being unpatriotic. Thats what infuriates me.
-
Mart
Re: Self Restraint
I think you are correct, Caractacus. But it goes further than that. If you compare photographs of Yasser Arafat (Arab) and Alan Yentob (Jew) you could think they are related.
Still, you can get nasty family feuds too.
Mart
Still, you can get nasty family feuds too.
Mart
-
jj
Re: Self Restraint
The trouble is, as I've said before, that the only 'exit strategy' the US has is to pull out its troops and send in its contractors.
Having once gone in, they should remain as the sole available military and infarstructural authority until such time as the Iraqis are able to govern themselves without recourse to internecine carving-out of each others' tripes. Today's news from Afghanistan is not encouraging for future US intentions elsewwhere: the rapid and almost total withdrawal of US arms there has led to a return to bloody infighting and a resurgence of the Taleban.
Semites are all peoples descended from the Biblical patriarch Shem, including the Jews, the Iraqi Assyrian minority, and the Iranians, and I believe also Libyans and Ethiopians (although the latter may be more an anthropological grouping thsn a national one)........
Having once gone in, they should remain as the sole available military and infarstructural authority until such time as the Iraqis are able to govern themselves without recourse to internecine carving-out of each others' tripes. Today's news from Afghanistan is not encouraging for future US intentions elsewwhere: the rapid and almost total withdrawal of US arms there has led to a return to bloody infighting and a resurgence of the Taleban.
Semites are all peoples descended from the Biblical patriarch Shem, including the Jews, the Iraqi Assyrian minority, and the Iranians, and I believe also Libyans and Ethiopians (although the latter may be more an anthropological grouping thsn a national one)........
-
jj
Re: Self Restraint
I think the Abyssinians are a separate ethnic group to the Ethiopians (although both are said to be Semitic)......and Abyssinia as a nation became Ethiopia after WWII, didn't it?