Would you die for porn?

[Caractacus]

I'd hate to think what their idea of heaven is. Growing roses, no doubt.

[Matt]

I think it was the Notorious BIG who uttered this wisdom...

"When I die, fuck it I wanna go to hell
Cause I'm a piece of shit, it ain't hard to fuckin' tell
It don't make sense, goin' to heaven wit the goodie-goodies
Dressed in white, I like black Tims and black hoodies
God will probably have me on some real strict shit
No sleepin' all day, no gettin my dick licked
Hangin' with the goodie-goodies loungin' in paradise
Fuck that shit, I wanna tote guns and shoot dice"

I couldn't have put it better myself.

[woodgnome]

the following is not intended as a personal criticism but i'm curious - would you dare to express similar sentiments in public towards islam, if you harboured them?

many satirists/commentators who are comfortable with expressing their disdain/hatred/loathing for christianity (a moribund faith on these shores, by and large) remain strangely quiescent when it comes to voicing similarly robust criticism of a religion that churns out theocratic fascists who merrily proclaim contempt for democracy, the rights of women, freedom of expression, etc (and as for the immorality that this site embodies...).

performing no-holds-barred tv skits on the abusive/divisive nature of islam - now that IS something potentially to-die-for.

one of the reasons for this inhibition is concern about pandering, albeit unintentionally, to islamophobes motivated more by a loathing for those of a different skin colour/culture, than any progressive regard for human rights - but is that sufficient excuse for saying nothing at all? it was this sort of well-meaning but poorly thought out 'sensitivity' that caused the authorities to effecitively permit forced marriages for many years (for fear of being accused of cultural imperialism). if that rationale meant tolerating a few thousand girls of muslim heritage being whisked of to the sub-continent each year - bogus promises of a holiday ringing in their ears - only for them to end up being married/enslaved to a man they had never met before, then 'so be it' was the philosophy.

this disgraceful scenario has slowly changed over the past few of years, due largely to the outrage expressed by british-born muslim women over what they saw as an egregious form of moral relativism. if not for the courageous lead taken by the likes of the 'southall black sisters' many such crimes would still be having a blind-eye turned towards them by officaldom today - and all because of a ridiculously reductive interpretation of what multi-culturalism truly entails.

this well-intentioned but atrophied notion of pluralism is still being applied to the islamic faith. if we value freedom of expression, surely the on-going self-censorship that inhibits any vigorous, non-racist, critiquing of islam (of the sort that has long been directed towards the christian church) must be acknowledged - even if most of us lack the courage to do much about it. at least admitting to the fact might help open the door.

most of my neighbours are muslim and i get on very well with them. none of them consider me an infidel in the negative sense, or hold ambitions of imposing sharia in their adopted homeland - they simply want their children to have the opportunities that they never did. however, many of them would doubtless respond to any attack on islam and islamic institutions - no matter how trenchant or witty the argument made - as an attack on both themselves and their culture. that is unfortunate but if free speech were solely determined by the imperative of not upsetting anyone, regardless of the motives of the speaker, we'd be living in an incredibly polite but stupefyingly constipated world - and we don't.

just to re-emphasise: this is not about confirming the right of those with malevolent intent to indulge in xenophobic or negligent abuse of something they neither understand, nor care to make the effort to understand. it's about everyone and everything being met equally and truthfully by those with a mind to do so. you can argue the toss about who draws the line and where but the point is to at least have the argument.

what price, one day, a tv series hosted by the muslim equivalent of dave allen appearing on our screens?

(this post is my annual rant and i will now return to my tree for a good sleep. answers are welcome but not necessarily expected!)

[Caractacus]

I was going to post some remarks regarding Islam, but more related towards the almost completely negative viewpoint the western media takes towards it. Any religion that looks upon women as mere chattel is to be criticised. What the Taliban in Afghanistan, and to some extent the Shia government in Iran, did with regard women is shameful. But in the west we act as if that is the complete story of the Islamic faith.

Whether I agree with it or not, faith is important to some people. I object to Jonathan Edwards forcing his into people's faces whenever he appears as much as I do those sad American golfers with their WWJD (What would Jesus do?) wristbands. But they do have the right to worship according to their conscience. In many countries in the world, that's just not permitted.

In a way, I admire the Muslims their discipline in praying however many times a day it is, their fasting during Ramadan, the importance of making the Haj; just as I do, for example, the Catholics with their faith. But how can we constantly allow our press to portray all Islamic countries as fanatics while in this country the Roman Catholic Church sends out letters to parishioners telling them how to vote (pro-life, anti-contraception)? In America, it is quite all right to speak out against the "mad mullahs," but not to have a go at fundemantalist Christian sects as that is "unconstitutional."

I might (might?) be rambling, but the point I'm trying to make is that until we stop looking at Muslims with suspicion and realise that there are nearly as many different sects within Islam as there are within Christianity things will not improve. Muslims in this country are probably sick fed up of being associated with whichever extremists have hit the headlines.

Enough, and apologies if this doesn't make any sense. Atheism is a nice clean place, but the holidays suck!

[jj]

I only have a problem with faith, of whatever colour, when it seeks to assert itself as the sole truth- put simply, your truth can never logically be my truth- everyone perceives the world from their own unique perspective......so doorstepping Jehovahs are in their way every bit as pernicious as militant Muslims.
I, too, admire those who have a faith, on the grounds of 'whatever it takes to get you through the day': but I regard it as a little immature: in Douglas Adams' apposite phrase, "isn't it enough to see that a garden is lovely, without having to believe there are fairies at the bottom of it"? A lot of religious people I've met are people who would be 'moral' irreespective of their possession of a faith: so why do they bother?
I'm glad that the attitude in Britland that says when you attack me, you attack my faith is gradually gaining the derision it deserves. The funny thing is, my Muslim colleagues seem never to have a religious 'discussion' or 'issues' with me (possibly because our world outlooks are so radically divergent), whereas the Christians.......

[magoo]

Matt this is you rebelling against that religious upbringing you had. I remember you mentioning it before, Pentecostal I think you said. The trouble with all this anti religion ranting is that it reminds me of fascism and seems to be not actually concentrating on what really threatens our freedoms. Fundamentalism and extremism is the problem wether its right wing christians or any other extremists including certain parts of islam.

Theres plenty of liberal people out there who follow a religion or have spiritual/religious beliefs. And most of them keep themselves to themselves and dont try to tell other people how to live. Infact many people will not see a conflict between beleiving in God and watching porn if they dont beleive porn is wrong. Your probably getting so wound up because you still beleive deep down that your enjoyment of porn is wrong or sinfull.

Too imply that people should not be allowed to practce their faiths or have their own beleifs is treading on dangerous ground. Think of China.

[magoo]

To answer the original question. No I would not die for porn. Its not anywhere important enough a cause to die for.

And in anycase if porn was gone we would find something else to wank over like Baywatch or girl band pop videos. We could even try using our imaginations to create sexual fantasies which often produces a good result I find.

[marcusallen]

Magoo is correct.
Fundamentalism/Fanaticism is the BIG PROBLEM in this so-called enlightened age.
Things have not changed much have they? Some fucking power-mad crackpot will always arise, beit an ayatolla, a hitler, a pope, a president , a local "gangster", a dope dealer, a pimp etc. etc.

ANYONE who can be persuaded to go blow him/herself up, or commit self-immolation, is most certainly a fucking certifiable crank. BUT, anyone who provokes such actions in the name of their own particular cause to the detriment(DEATH) of innocents, is the real villain of the piece and should be immediately destroyed.

Why is it that mankind has not learned the lessons of history, in that violence solves nothing. In my old(er) age, I have learned that mediation, a chat, a laugh, a climb-down, an apology(even if not warranted) disarm a potentially violent situation and all parties live to argue another day.

Sex, booze & rock'nroll may sound trite, but at least they are a damn sight more peaceful and non-destructive.

[jj]

What a novel idea.

[buttsie]

Something like 'Gone with the Wind'

Our hero Magoo & heroine Cathy Barry

A good read...hope it never gets made into a film...lol

cheers
B....OZ