Hi Not sure if they are going broke , but if I owned a magazine I would want another source of income.Marcus made a good point about the 098 phone lines they are tacky At present the only mag I would consider buying is the revamped Mayfair, there photshoots are in the right direction.
Turning to money not being raised in 20 years ,here are some statistics
1983 Mayfair Volume 22 number 9 Ann Markham got ?500 for the centre spread by Donald Milne.Here in Germany we had an article about a former porn model she was active for 3 years in the early 70s here fee was Deutscemark 750.00 now if that figure is adjusted for inflation at an average of 5 % that becomes Dmk 3,240 and converted to Euro is 1560 transfer into sterling it becomes ?1,177.00 Now looking at the rates a model gets of say ?450.00.these have not kept up with inflation, not just bcause so many more girls ae available but the fees paid have remained constant .Now the comments about never meeting a poor photographer well if the photographer gets ?600.00 plus ?1,400.00 from the States what it does not take into account is equiptment costs, travel ,depreciation. Once the pics are sold then there is the waiting time for the fees and finally the most important bit .The photographer has got to sell the sets abroad.I can imagine once established it is a profitable job and a pleasant life style as was illustrated in my earlier post about Fine Art Erotica , but it does seem a hard way to make money. For the photogtahers who's work I enjoy a big thank you
Are porn mags going broke ?
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martin
Re: Are porn mags going broke ?
since we get input here from mayfair & mens world on here and although slightly off the original thread of this they may have knowledge on the following.
Indeed we know from Sunday Times that Paul Raymond is one of the richest people in the country, why did he never risk even one penny in publishing something hardcore and fighting for that if required in the courts, only publishing pics in the States where it was already legal and also if the posts here are anything to go by he still is not coming up with the goods even online! Surely when one has more money than it would ever be possible to spend could would it not be possible to give the customer something back rather greed always being king?
Indeed we know from Sunday Times that Paul Raymond is one of the richest people in the country, why did he never risk even one penny in publishing something hardcore and fighting for that if required in the courts, only publishing pics in the States where it was already legal and also if the posts here are anything to go by he still is not coming up with the goods even online! Surely when one has more money than it would ever be possible to spend could would it not be possible to give the customer something back rather greed always being king?
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TheProf
Re: Are porn mags going broke ?
Thank you Marcus,for your kind words...I appreciate that!
As me and Marcus found out once when we visited a well known publisher's office (in one of those tower blocks),and this applies to other magazine companies....it is'nt the Editors fault we cannot get more money,they are only employed by the company itself-the word comes down from high..the publisher himself on mahogany row..
That's the room where it's all sweetness and light,and the violins playing in the background when you ask for more money.
Usually a pack of tissues are kept on the desk so he can have a good cry when he is telling you the company will go BUST (no pun)if WE the photographers,get anymore money.
So what choice have you,the professional,when behind you six million amateur are wanting your job...you carry on until you drop,at the same price.
No,I retired from this business on time,I could see which way it was headed,no more money but everything else going up in price!
No,why should you have to sell to the States..you should be able to make a comfortable living in this country without doing up packets for abroad.
You become a miniature post office in itself,bad enough having to send to Editors via the post office here,or making trips to their offices.
I found photography very hard work-taking the pictures was bad enough with all the organising etc,then processing and all that goes with that..and selling (although I was in a much better position than most because I was the companies main source)...BUT still poorly payed!
The violins would play if I wanted a penny more-usually one of those really old fashioned tear-jerkers where we all ended up 'crying' because you believed every word they said that they had no more money.
Next day you would read they had made another million!
No,Editors are not to blame...those on the top floor have a lot to answer for..don't they call it..Ivory towers?...mark you,I've also known Editors to become little sh.... as well,to save their own necks.(or the Job Centre)..but these can be the exception and it happens rarely.
Chin up the rest of you...
TheProf.
As me and Marcus found out once when we visited a well known publisher's office (in one of those tower blocks),and this applies to other magazine companies....it is'nt the Editors fault we cannot get more money,they are only employed by the company itself-the word comes down from high..the publisher himself on mahogany row..
That's the room where it's all sweetness and light,and the violins playing in the background when you ask for more money.
Usually a pack of tissues are kept on the desk so he can have a good cry when he is telling you the company will go BUST (no pun)if WE the photographers,get anymore money.
So what choice have you,the professional,when behind you six million amateur are wanting your job...you carry on until you drop,at the same price.
No,I retired from this business on time,I could see which way it was headed,no more money but everything else going up in price!
No,why should you have to sell to the States..you should be able to make a comfortable living in this country without doing up packets for abroad.
You become a miniature post office in itself,bad enough having to send to Editors via the post office here,or making trips to their offices.
I found photography very hard work-taking the pictures was bad enough with all the organising etc,then processing and all that goes with that..and selling (although I was in a much better position than most because I was the companies main source)...BUT still poorly payed!
The violins would play if I wanted a penny more-usually one of those really old fashioned tear-jerkers where we all ended up 'crying' because you believed every word they said that they had no more money.
Next day you would read they had made another million!
No,Editors are not to blame...those on the top floor have a lot to answer for..don't they call it..Ivory towers?...mark you,I've also known Editors to become little sh.... as well,to save their own necks.(or the Job Centre)..but these can be the exception and it happens rarely.
Chin up the rest of you...
TheProf.
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Dave Wells
Re: Are porn mags going broke ?
Editors please note Jon and The Profs comments are somewhat biblical in there importance. I, like Horace don't blame you editors but as one of you said in this thread you get up to 100 sets a month these days from the 3 billion photogs that seem to be around at the mo. That means you reject about 85-88 sets a month ( going on the theory that you only need 12 - 15 sets in any one months publication ). Sure there are more than one mag to tout our work at but you all have your faves and regretfully stick with them. Thus making our ?500 - ?700 outlay to shoot the thing in the first place ( remember we are thew only ones in the whole sequence who has to wait sometimes months for there money ) seem like double that when it keeps getting rejected.
If the lord and mighties that do indeed sit in those towers would put the money up ( just to get into the 21st century would be a start ) it would ease the pain of sets being rejected. I just thank my lucky stars that the specialist market I shoot for seems to like what I do or indeed what I have done.
If the lord and mighties that do indeed sit in those towers would put the money up ( just to get into the 21st century would be a start ) it would ease the pain of sets being rejected. I just thank my lucky stars that the specialist market I shoot for seems to like what I do or indeed what I have done.
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Knave Editor
Re: Are porn mags going broke ?
The Prof wrote:
"I found photography very hard work-taking the pictures was bad enough with all the organising etc,then processing and all that goes with that..and selling."
"Taking the pictures was bad enough"???? That's what you were being paid for! Just as well you got out when you did what with it being such a hard slog. Next time you're visiting the real world have an ask around and you'll find most jobs are hard work and unrewarding. I don't see why glamour photographers expect sympathy.
That said I can appreciate the frustrations of paying for models, film, processing and all the other expenses and then not getting a return on that outlay for, at best, 3 months and possibly up to a year later. But that's the way it is.
And getting right back to the original question as to whether porn mags are going broke, take a look at the overflowing top-shelf of your local newsagent for the answer.
"I found photography very hard work-taking the pictures was bad enough with all the organising etc,then processing and all that goes with that..and selling."
"Taking the pictures was bad enough"???? That's what you were being paid for! Just as well you got out when you did what with it being such a hard slog. Next time you're visiting the real world have an ask around and you'll find most jobs are hard work and unrewarding. I don't see why glamour photographers expect sympathy.
That said I can appreciate the frustrations of paying for models, film, processing and all the other expenses and then not getting a return on that outlay for, at best, 3 months and possibly up to a year later. But that's the way it is.
And getting right back to the original question as to whether porn mags are going broke, take a look at the overflowing top-shelf of your local newsagent for the answer.
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TheProf
Re: Are porn mags going broke ?
Wrong Mr.Editor of Knave...We have never met and we are not likely too,...Im not getting into an argument with you...Im just saying while you sitting comfortable at your desk,photographers run around doing un-payed work,such as booking models,getting processing done,collecting the lot...and you really believe the photographer is being payed well..
Cobblers!
...and then you guys turn round and can reject the set.
I don't know about you-but I've worked in the media (Inc Fleet St) for over 50-years,so as we would say in the Army,I've seen a bit of service!
Editor are expendable,and I've certainly seen them come and go over the years...they are at the whim of the publisher and the flavour of the month or year!.
Anyhow,as we can see,the Internet is catching up fast on publications,it's a great shame,and I can see in the next 10-years,mags may not exist at all,but as a media man,this will be dreadful reflection on our society.
TheProf.
Cobblers!
...and then you guys turn round and can reject the set.
I don't know about you-but I've worked in the media (Inc Fleet St) for over 50-years,so as we would say in the Army,I've seen a bit of service!
Editor are expendable,and I've certainly seen them come and go over the years...they are at the whim of the publisher and the flavour of the month or year!.
Anyhow,as we can see,the Internet is catching up fast on publications,it's a great shame,and I can see in the next 10-years,mags may not exist at all,but as a media man,this will be dreadful reflection on our society.
TheProf.
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Mayfair & MensWorld
Re: Are porn mags going broke ?
To all the photographers (including those who don't give their names) on this thread:
Good glamour photography sells. You all know that.
And by good, I mean: pose variation, set location, good lighting, contrast, skin tone, depth of field, focus and quality of model.
That's it. There's no secret to it, and it's not rocket science. If you can capture all of these elements, then you're in with an excellent chance.
If top shelf mags seem to favour certain photographers, it's because those said snappers can and do deliver the goods month in, month out, and can be relied upon to do so. They also don't phone publishers up when drunk and swear down the phone to secretaries, and there's one poster here who has done just that before now.
I can't tell you the number of times I've rejected sets on the basis that they were underexposed/clich?d/badly shot in the last 15-odd years. Does it give me any pleasure? No, because I'm fully aware of the financial implications of shooting girls for a living. But the bottom line is, if it ain't good, it won't sell. Same as anything else in a capitalist market.
Good glamour photography sells. You all know that.
And by good, I mean: pose variation, set location, good lighting, contrast, skin tone, depth of field, focus and quality of model.
That's it. There's no secret to it, and it's not rocket science. If you can capture all of these elements, then you're in with an excellent chance.
If top shelf mags seem to favour certain photographers, it's because those said snappers can and do deliver the goods month in, month out, and can be relied upon to do so. They also don't phone publishers up when drunk and swear down the phone to secretaries, and there's one poster here who has done just that before now.
I can't tell you the number of times I've rejected sets on the basis that they were underexposed/clich?d/badly shot in the last 15-odd years. Does it give me any pleasure? No, because I'm fully aware of the financial implications of shooting girls for a living. But the bottom line is, if it ain't good, it won't sell. Same as anything else in a capitalist market.
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Knave Editor
Re: Are porn mags going broke ?
Hey Mr Prof, I never said we had met and I'm certainly not getting into an argument with you ??just responding to your somewhat bizarre statements.
Such as:
"photographers run around doing un-payed work,such as booking models,getting processing done, collecting the lot..."
Referring to booking models as 'un-payed' work is ludicrous, it's quite obviously part of the job of being a photographer. Same as "getting processing done" - if you set yourself up as a photographer then I think it's quite reasonable to expect to have pay money to get your film processed! And then you have the arduous task of "collecting the lot"? What, you have to actually get off your arse and go to the developers to collect your film? You poor little lamb!
Such as:
"photographers run around doing un-payed work,such as booking models,getting processing done, collecting the lot..."
Referring to booking models as 'un-payed' work is ludicrous, it's quite obviously part of the job of being a photographer. Same as "getting processing done" - if you set yourself up as a photographer then I think it's quite reasonable to expect to have pay money to get your film processed! And then you have the arduous task of "collecting the lot"? What, you have to actually get off your arse and go to the developers to collect your film? You poor little lamb!
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Dave Wells
Re: Are porn mags going broke ?
So lets conclude that no mag editor would admit that his mag is selling less and no photographer would admit that he sells 'too many' sets.
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TheProf
Re: Are porn mags going broke ?
Don't you have anything better to do,Mr.Editor,than answer my posts...it's seems not...does your boss know about this?
Editors are 2 a penny...anyhow,I worked for a while with the former boss of KNAVE,Russell Gay,a wonderful gentleman-never minced his words,in those day's you NEVER talked to the under-dogs-you went straight to him!So did my colleagues who are now watching these posts.
You would have been the first one out knowing you are spending your time answering on this forum..."get working on your lupe" Russell would have shouted.
TheProf.
Editors are 2 a penny...anyhow,I worked for a while with the former boss of KNAVE,Russell Gay,a wonderful gentleman-never minced his words,in those day's you NEVER talked to the under-dogs-you went straight to him!So did my colleagues who are now watching these posts.
You would have been the first one out knowing you are spending your time answering on this forum..."get working on your lupe" Russell would have shouted.
TheProf.