You need look no further than Afghanistan to see how long it takes to rebuild a country from the ground up-decades
IMHO there are no longer justified wars
It should have ended with WWII but know we're still pushing ahead looking for the next one...syria...North Korea
Its one way to keep globalisation moving I guess
Afterall the only thing that counts is a countries economy not its people
cheers
B....OZ Cynical
the dirty dozen
Re: the dirty dozen
No disrespect aimed at the American forces on D Day, who were given the most heavily fortified beaches to land on. They paid an awful price in dead and wounded for every yard taken. The first 25 minutes of Ryan showed that in all its awfulness, without sentiment. Thereafter, for me (emphasise, for me), it became a rather ordinary tale about American soldiers where the characters could have stepped out of a film from 30 or 40 years before: imagine Ernest Borgnine instead of Tom Sizemore and you'll know what I mean.
Many films made today cater for the "American market" and the belief that if the main characters aren't American it won't be important to an audience. Thirty years ago a low budget film was made about Czech partisans who executed the Nazi Party's dauphin Heydrich, the man who chaired the conference where the final solution was agreed. The film starred an American and a Brit, but no attempt was made to change the nationality of their characters. If the film was made today, it would be wisecracking Bruce Willis as a GI taking on the entire Third Reich.
If a story is worth telling, it doesn't matter where the main character is from: Prague or Pennsylvania, Nairobi or New Orleans. The film-makers diminish their own film by changing such things. Okay, rant over. Time Nurse Chanta gave me my medication.
Many films made today cater for the "American market" and the belief that if the main characters aren't American it won't be important to an audience. Thirty years ago a low budget film was made about Czech partisans who executed the Nazi Party's dauphin Heydrich, the man who chaired the conference where the final solution was agreed. The film starred an American and a Brit, but no attempt was made to change the nationality of their characters. If the film was made today, it would be wisecracking Bruce Willis as a GI taking on the entire Third Reich.
If a story is worth telling, it doesn't matter where the main character is from: Prague or Pennsylvania, Nairobi or New Orleans. The film-makers diminish their own film by changing such things. Okay, rant over. Time Nurse Chanta gave me my medication.
Pervert
The Worlds Biggest Collector Of Ben Dover DVD`s
Koppite Till I Die
Remember - You`ll Never Walk Alone
The Worlds Biggest Collector Of Ben Dover DVD`s
Koppite Till I Die
Remember - You`ll Never Walk Alone
Re: the dirty dozen
US war films have always been self-regarding and militarily myopic. But they don't always have to be bad films. My gripe with 'Ryan' and 'Pearl Harbor' and 'Enigma' is the faux gravitas placed on them, expecting the public to accept them as somehow definitive or the last word in depiction of the War or Wars.
And Hollywood has always played fast and loose with history - something worthy of another thread on its own. Of late it has been very popular to portray the English as the villains of history - the risible, laughable 'Braveheart' and 'The Patriot'. Still, the more unthinking members of the public will lap it up - they always have and will.
It's a pity someone like Ernest Borgnine wasn't in 'Ryan'. It would have improved it 100%.
And Hollywood has always played fast and loose with history - something worthy of another thread on its own. Of late it has been very popular to portray the English as the villains of history - the risible, laughable 'Braveheart' and 'The Patriot'. Still, the more unthinking members of the public will lap it up - they always have and will.
It's a pity someone like Ernest Borgnine wasn't in 'Ryan'. It would have improved it 100%.
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The Last Word
- Posts: 1644
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
SPR vs Titanic
Not quite - there's a subtle difference. Theoreticaly, I would rather have the blatantly-obvious romanticised rewrites of the Pearl Harbor/Titanic/Braveheart variety than the likes of Saving Private Ryan anyday, as they are mere fantasiced entertainments in the grand Hollywood tradition and not pretending to be anything more. However, SPR, with SS' typically hobnail-booted didactic leanings and serious director posturing, comes on like a lesson. True to form, the overly realistic D-day landings were seemingly only there to lend 'authenticity' to the ficticious proceedings afterwards, which is far slyer and smacks of an opportunism of a far more dangerous nature than Titanic and the like (and what lesson did we have with SPR? Essentially the same quasi-analogy of Schindler's List - save one american and you save all americans. So that's what D-day was for, eh? Piss off, Steve).
When you think about it, if the fantasy of Titanic & co. can get a person to go over to the bookcase and find out what actually happened, then it's done its job twofold. The likes of SPR - and the questionable realism = reality equation they promote - threaten to do away with that. Just sit there, they seem to say, and we'll bring it all to you.
--
"Let's do it..."
When you think about it, if the fantasy of Titanic & co. can get a person to go over to the bookcase and find out what actually happened, then it's done its job twofold. The likes of SPR - and the questionable realism = reality equation they promote - threaten to do away with that. Just sit there, they seem to say, and we'll bring it all to you.
--
"Let's do it..."
"Let's do it..."
Re: SPR vs Titanic
I do not for one moment think that those films you mention are purely Hollywood blockbuster stuff. There's always been and always will be the ulterior message from Hollywood that the US - land of the free - is the ultimate arbiter of truth, justice and showing the world the American way.
Neither do I believe there is anything subtle about such film-making. Is there not some truism somewhere that the victors write the history ?
Hollywood does make some wonderful war films. For the D-Day landings in particular, I think 'The Longest Day' from 1962 is a superb effort. And the History Channel recently showed a great documentary on the making of the Zanuck film.
On a purely filmic point, does anyone remember a film (made I think by Paramount in the 1940s ) called 'The Fighting Sullivans' about a true story of 5 American brothers killed when their ship went down in action. Didn't Spielberg use this story for 'Ryan' ?
And as for Titanic - what a complete heap of crap ! Apart from the scenes with the old woman reminiscing at the start and Kate Winslet getting her tits out it was drivel. Much, much better is the British film from the 1950s about the disaster called 'A Night to Remember' with Kenneth More. Better acting as well.
Neither do I believe there is anything subtle about such film-making. Is there not some truism somewhere that the victors write the history ?
Hollywood does make some wonderful war films. For the D-Day landings in particular, I think 'The Longest Day' from 1962 is a superb effort. And the History Channel recently showed a great documentary on the making of the Zanuck film.
On a purely filmic point, does anyone remember a film (made I think by Paramount in the 1940s ) called 'The Fighting Sullivans' about a true story of 5 American brothers killed when their ship went down in action. Didn't Spielberg use this story for 'Ryan' ?
And as for Titanic - what a complete heap of crap ! Apart from the scenes with the old woman reminiscing at the start and Kate Winslet getting her tits out it was drivel. Much, much better is the British film from the 1950s about the disaster called 'A Night to Remember' with Kenneth More. Better acting as well.
Re: SPR vs Titanic
Yeah but A Night To Remember didn't have the happy ending---Leo dying.
History is something that doesn't work awfully well with movies, since we tend to portray things with today's standards. Historically, Braveheart was pants---it tried to be a kilted Spartacus. But, ridiculous liberties with the facts apart, it was entertaining----and so much better than it would have been had the politically correct "right on" brigade (Tracey Ullmann, I do mean you) had their way. She objected on the grounds of Gibson's politics: "Yeah, throw the pommie poofter out the window!"
While it may say that Scotland earned its freedom, it's strange that many rural parts of the country were still being run in a feudal style system 400 years later. Much of history would have you believe that the 1745 rebellion was England v Scotland, but a Jacobite victory would have been disastrous for much of Scotland, and not just the central belt.
The Longest Day was a good movie and tried to show the various aspects of D Day, with varying degrees of success. Compare that with something like A Bridge Too Far, seemingly accurate and rather harrowing---but most of the people sympathetically portrayed (the characters played by Ryan O'Neal, Sean Connery and Gene Hackman) were advisors on the picture, whereas those who weren't (Dirk Bogarde's general) weren't.
History is something that doesn't work awfully well with movies, since we tend to portray things with today's standards. Historically, Braveheart was pants---it tried to be a kilted Spartacus. But, ridiculous liberties with the facts apart, it was entertaining----and so much better than it would have been had the politically correct "right on" brigade (Tracey Ullmann, I do mean you) had their way. She objected on the grounds of Gibson's politics: "Yeah, throw the pommie poofter out the window!"
While it may say that Scotland earned its freedom, it's strange that many rural parts of the country were still being run in a feudal style system 400 years later. Much of history would have you believe that the 1745 rebellion was England v Scotland, but a Jacobite victory would have been disastrous for much of Scotland, and not just the central belt.
The Longest Day was a good movie and tried to show the various aspects of D Day, with varying degrees of success. Compare that with something like A Bridge Too Far, seemingly accurate and rather harrowing---but most of the people sympathetically portrayed (the characters played by Ryan O'Neal, Sean Connery and Gene Hackman) were advisors on the picture, whereas those who weren't (Dirk Bogarde's general) weren't.
Pervert
The Worlds Biggest Collector Of Ben Dover DVD`s
Koppite Till I Die
Remember - You`ll Never Walk Alone
The Worlds Biggest Collector Of Ben Dover DVD`s
Koppite Till I Die
Remember - You`ll Never Walk Alone
Re: looting and pillaging
plenty of looting over here in the early 80s with the brixton/toxteth riots.
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Deuce Bigolo
- Posts: 9910
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: looting and pillaging
I wasn't singling out the Yanks for any particular attention in relation to looting & pillaging
Just pointing out that Kellys Heroes was just a tad bit different from your usual war movie.
I've no doubt Soldiers of all countries were at it
Heard the Ruskies were pretty bad when Berlin fell-exacting revenge I assume...War brings out the best & worst in mankind and always will
Just ask any Civilian after any conflict
cheers
B....OZ
Just pointing out that Kellys Heroes was just a tad bit different from your usual war movie.
I've no doubt Soldiers of all countries were at it
Heard the Ruskies were pretty bad when Berlin fell-exacting revenge I assume...War brings out the best & worst in mankind and always will
Just ask any Civilian after any conflict
cheers
B....OZ