Special Relationship My Arse !!!!!
Re: Excuse me...but
Don't forget the cucumber. lol
Re: Excuse me...but
Did you really mean to use the word "affliction" or was it meant to be affection??? lol
Re: Excuse me...but
Good point, nosey. For some people they would view it as an affliction. My wife treats me (rightly I suspect) as an old history duffer and humours me accordingly. For me, it is a deep and lifelong-lasting love affair. And not just because I am a trained historian.
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Bob Singleton
- Posts: 1975
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Hey Chris...
Bimmercat wrote:
Ok...I'll bite...what exactly is the REAL threat to those in the UK from America being the only "super power" in the world? In the past, have we left you all hanging in times of need?
SNIP
To put it in a very simplistic way, the threat comes as a direct result of our "close relationship"... those who would attack the US will also attack us because of the "bond" between our two nations; one which I fail to understand.
As for helping us out in the past... I take it you learnt history not from factual accounts but from Holywood. If we take WWII as an example...
Throughout most of 1940 and 1941 Churchill begged Roosevelt to come to Britain's aid, but this was mostly turned down. Yes, there was the lend-lease agreement (not exactly done on the most favourable of terms for the UK... you shafted us well and truly there... never let it be said the US doesn't know how to make a buck by taking advantage of those who have no choice) and you did sell us food and oil while refusing to sell to the Germans, but that was pretty much as far as your help went.
When the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbour the result was that on 8th December 1941 the USA formally declared war on Japan. On the 11th December Germany and Italy declared war on the USA. If Hitler and Mussolini hadn't, in some idiotic show of bravura, declared war on the USA would the USA have entered into the European theatre of the war? From White House documents of the time, that we are now able to view, it seems not. So thanks very much for your belated and grudging help!
There are many more examples I could cite from both world wars, but maybe it might do you some good to find out the truth for yourself... just don't go relying on Universal Studios et al for that.
Ok...I'll bite...what exactly is the REAL threat to those in the UK from America being the only "super power" in the world? In the past, have we left you all hanging in times of need?
SNIP
To put it in a very simplistic way, the threat comes as a direct result of our "close relationship"... those who would attack the US will also attack us because of the "bond" between our two nations; one which I fail to understand.
As for helping us out in the past... I take it you learnt history not from factual accounts but from Holywood. If we take WWII as an example...
Throughout most of 1940 and 1941 Churchill begged Roosevelt to come to Britain's aid, but this was mostly turned down. Yes, there was the lend-lease agreement (not exactly done on the most favourable of terms for the UK... you shafted us well and truly there... never let it be said the US doesn't know how to make a buck by taking advantage of those who have no choice) and you did sell us food and oil while refusing to sell to the Germans, but that was pretty much as far as your help went.
When the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbour the result was that on 8th December 1941 the USA formally declared war on Japan. On the 11th December Germany and Italy declared war on the USA. If Hitler and Mussolini hadn't, in some idiotic show of bravura, declared war on the USA would the USA have entered into the European theatre of the war? From White House documents of the time, that we are now able to view, it seems not. So thanks very much for your belated and grudging help!
There are many more examples I could cite from both world wars, but maybe it might do you some good to find out the truth for yourself... just don't go relying on Universal Studios et al for that.
"But how to make Liverpool economically prosperous? If only there was some way for Liverpudlians to profit from going on and on about the past in a whiny voice."
- Stewart Lee
- Stewart Lee
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Bob Singleton
- Posts: 1975
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Hey Chris...
I agree that Chamberlain and many other leaders in Europe (and elsewhere) allowed Hitler to militarise. That's not to say that the US is the ONLY country that came to our help, which is what you have been implying!
Having travelled extensively around the world, although I may not speak the language, I feel more "at home" in places like Germany, Italy, Spain, Czech Republic, etc., than I ever have in the US which, for me, would be no more alien a place if it were to be found on the moon!
Having travelled extensively around the world, although I may not speak the language, I feel more "at home" in places like Germany, Italy, Spain, Czech Republic, etc., than I ever have in the US which, for me, would be no more alien a place if it were to be found on the moon!
"But how to make Liverpool economically prosperous? If only there was some way for Liverpudlians to profit from going on and on about the past in a whiny voice."
- Stewart Lee
- Stewart Lee
Re: Hey Chris...
'....but the blame for enabling Hitler to buiild up such an armament lies squarely on the shoulders of Neville Chamberlain,'
This isn't the first time you've named and shamed Neville Chamberlain as the one true appeaser. Wrong. Totally. A very great part of the blame should go the way of Stanley Baldwin, who was the British PM from 1935-37 and overtly used the policy of appeasement to stay out of conflicts such as Abyssinia and Spain. And further than that to the majority of politicians during the 1920s and 1930s.
One has to see appeasement as a contemporary issue. There was no great desire for armed conflict in this country. The deeds of the brave and fallen in the massacres of 1914-1918 were so painful to that generation here and in Europe that all efforts were made - and supported - to avoid a repeat. 'Never again...' and all that.
But in addition there were domestic reasons for not pursuing an aggressive foreign policy. A lingering faith in the League of Nations (blown to bits by the 1931 Japanese invasion of Manchuria), huge unemployment and social problems arising from the Depression and an increasing recognition that the Treaty of Versailles was inherently unjust and creating resentment.
From the perspective of that dark decade, the above seems understandable. But, the failure to heed the warning signs in the early 1930s to the rise of fascism and militarism really was sinful, even with the benefit of hindsight. We had weak politicians and a miserable inability to re-arm properly and quickly and to modernise our armed forces was fatal.
ps the 'beach' you refer to is presumably Omaha Beach. There are no graves on the beach ; they are on the cliffs above the Omaha Beach shoreline at Colleville-sur-Mer, in Normandy. It is a wonderful place to contemplate. From a vantage point, you can look over to see where the carnage took place. But please remember too, that many died on the beaches. And they were not all Americans.
This isn't the first time you've named and shamed Neville Chamberlain as the one true appeaser. Wrong. Totally. A very great part of the blame should go the way of Stanley Baldwin, who was the British PM from 1935-37 and overtly used the policy of appeasement to stay out of conflicts such as Abyssinia and Spain. And further than that to the majority of politicians during the 1920s and 1930s.
One has to see appeasement as a contemporary issue. There was no great desire for armed conflict in this country. The deeds of the brave and fallen in the massacres of 1914-1918 were so painful to that generation here and in Europe that all efforts were made - and supported - to avoid a repeat. 'Never again...' and all that.
But in addition there were domestic reasons for not pursuing an aggressive foreign policy. A lingering faith in the League of Nations (blown to bits by the 1931 Japanese invasion of Manchuria), huge unemployment and social problems arising from the Depression and an increasing recognition that the Treaty of Versailles was inherently unjust and creating resentment.
From the perspective of that dark decade, the above seems understandable. But, the failure to heed the warning signs in the early 1930s to the rise of fascism and militarism really was sinful, even with the benefit of hindsight. We had weak politicians and a miserable inability to re-arm properly and quickly and to modernise our armed forces was fatal.
ps the 'beach' you refer to is presumably Omaha Beach. There are no graves on the beach ; they are on the cliffs above the Omaha Beach shoreline at Colleville-sur-Mer, in Normandy. It is a wonderful place to contemplate. From a vantage point, you can look over to see where the carnage took place. But please remember too, that many died on the beaches. And they were not all Americans.
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Bob Singleton
- Posts: 1975
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Hey Chris...
Bimmercat wrote:
SNIP
Couple this with the nuclear program that we KNEW the French were helping Saddam out with
SNIP
??????
IAEA have no knowledge of this... only you, it seems! Don't believe everything "Dubbya" tells you.
SNIP
Couple this with the nuclear program that we KNEW the French were helping Saddam out with
SNIP
??????
IAEA have no knowledge of this... only you, it seems! Don't believe everything "Dubbya" tells you.
"But how to make Liverpool economically prosperous? If only there was some way for Liverpudlians to profit from going on and on about the past in a whiny voice."
- Stewart Lee
- Stewart Lee