What about all this Guantanamo Bay bollocks, eh? The yanks are releasing some of the ?British? terror suspects for them to come home and probably (due to political considerations) get away scott free! There?s been a lot of ho-ha in the media (BBC, Channel 4 News, poncy middleclass newspapers) about these poor dears and their rights - how disgracefully the yanks are treating them and all that. But nary a word about their alleged crimes and the enormity of them! The serious media (and certainly publicly owned media) have a responsibility of objective impartiality. This has most spectacularly not been the case in the Guantanamo saga. Hardly a mention of the ?T? word and that these fuckers had made common cause with parties intent on the killing of British military personal and the indiscriminate murder of all types civilians anywhere - and in particular western civilians. Our civilians. Andrew Neil pointed this discrepancy out a few weeks ago when he indicated that polls clearly showed that the man on the Clapham omnibus wouldn?t give a hoot if the Yanks were to summarily string them up! And the BBC plead that they?re not biased?
Their apologists will make all kinds of pathetic excuses for them, but hey, come on. What where they doing in a war zone, brandishing Kalashnikovs? Had they popped over there for a weekend mini break? Maybe have a few beers with the Taliban? Maybe take in a few beheadings and stonings before an organised bus tour of a real working Al-Queda training camp? And you know how cute those Islamic chicks look in their burkas. And isn?t it always the way that whenever you call round to your religious zealot pal?s fortified mountain retreat for a cup of tea you always seem to catch them in the middle of a combined airborne assault by the Delta Force and SAS? In fact at least one of these fuckers was captured at Masari-Sharif (the fortress prison rebellion) where we know for a fact that they were shooting at British troops ?casue we all saw them in a pitched gun battle wit the SAS on Channel 4 News! So how the fuck can they just come back and carry on in British society as normal?
It?s not their treachery that makes me angry. It?s their stupidity, their idiocy and their pretentiousness. We welcomed their parents to this country (OK, grudgingly by some) but they enjoyed all the benefits of growing up in a wealthy western democracy, loads of education, healthcare, opportunity and I?ll wager that the never once experienced the pangs of hunger. So what do they do to thank us for our largess? Take up with some nasty idiotic boring bastards intent on destroying all that they have benefited from? Oh, I know why they?ve done it. The thought it would be a romantic, rebellious thing to do. An Islamic version of joining the Foreign Legion. A touch of the old Beau Gestes. They though it would be cool to go along with all that Taliban tosh in the same way that normal teenagers dress up like, hells angels, mods, rockers, Goths or whatever. They could then feel important, special, and cool. Not like their parents busy tending to their boring business back in Birmingham and Leicster. But the problem here is that this is real life and if it?s part of the cult, gang or clique?s nature and character to kill people, then it will end up on damp grey morning with Mrs Smith getting a knock on her door, and the two military policemen standing there telling her that - ?We?re very sorry Maam, but your son Kevin won?t be coming home for his 21st birthday party next month as he was shot dead by Al Queda gunmen in Afghanistan 24 hours ago.?
Dibble
Guantanamo Bay
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Officer Dibble
- Posts: 2372
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Guantanamo Bay
Cheers dude!
Officer Dibble - Back on the case
Officer Dibble - Back on the case
Re: Guantanamo Bay
Do you know something about these people that the rest of us don't?
I'm not defending terrorists but I understand that some of the people in the Guantamo camp have perfectly reasonable and legitimate reasons for being in Afghanistan.
Until I know more about the circumstances under which these particular individuals were "arrested" I'm not prepared to go on a rant.
Mart
I'm not defending terrorists but I understand that some of the people in the Guantamo camp have perfectly reasonable and legitimate reasons for being in Afghanistan.
Until I know more about the circumstances under which these particular individuals were "arrested" I'm not prepared to go on a rant.
Mart
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stripeysydney
- Posts: 1254
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Guantanamo Bay
The paticular individuals who were apprehended in Afghanistan were definately not there on a club 18/30 holiday,but i do think that they should be subject to due process:ie,the law and allowed a fair trial because thats why we will always win. Sometimes we may not like the verdicts but as Dirty Harry once said "sure i don't like the system but until they come up with a better one i'll stick with this one".
I may not agree with everything that Officer Dibble said but it was a good, reasonable and well-balanced if slightly cynical rant.
I may not agree with everything that Officer Dibble said but it was a good, reasonable and well-balanced if slightly cynical rant.
Re: Guantanamo Bay
I tell you,
watch within the next few weeks the old "Race Card" being plyed.
I saw one report saying it was going to cost the british tax payer ?500K, now i don't know if that was each or per year, but if i would object if it was 5pence!!!!.
I really despair at how we (the United Kingdom) have become so sanitised between doing the Polictically Correct (PC) thing and seeing true justice done.
These so called innocents will probably launch a court action against the US funded by british legal aid for "Wrongfull Imprisonement" and get a load of compensation.
The british goverment should have left it up to the U.S. and not send them back to the U.K. just because they are a "Ethnic Minority".
As with Abu Hamza he hates western society the british, and americans but will gladly seek refuge there.
I say kick them out.
NOBBY
watch within the next few weeks the old "Race Card" being plyed.
I saw one report saying it was going to cost the british tax payer ?500K, now i don't know if that was each or per year, but if i would object if it was 5pence!!!!.
I really despair at how we (the United Kingdom) have become so sanitised between doing the Polictically Correct (PC) thing and seeing true justice done.
These so called innocents will probably launch a court action against the US funded by british legal aid for "Wrongfull Imprisonement" and get a load of compensation.
The british goverment should have left it up to the U.S. and not send them back to the U.K. just because they are a "Ethnic Minority".
As with Abu Hamza he hates western society the british, and americans but will gladly seek refuge there.
I say kick them out.
NOBBY
As the great scholar say's "Anybody who said they are a Brain Surgeon are really a Taxi Driver?"
Re: Guantanamo Bay
Errr....one of those 'terrorists' was picked up in Kenya. Which is, unless my geography is oddly deficient, is in another continent.
And no evidence whatsoever has so far been presented to support the US allegations. If they can prove they are bad guys, fine- but it's my (and many others') belief that most Guantanamo Bay detainees have been subjected to summary (and internationally illegal) interment without access to counsel or any norms of lawful detention, becaue the US cannot provide any valid reason for those detentions.
The larger point is that it's a tad hypocritical of the US to employ immoral methods, like the proxy use of countries that sanction torture to extract 'confessions', and then slate radical Muslims for not adhering to standards of 'civilised behaviour'.
The unpalatable truth is that we must, and must be SEEN to, play by the Rules- that's fundamentally (if you'll pardon the pun) what differentiates those who believe in the rule of Law from the barbarians......
And no evidence whatsoever has so far been presented to support the US allegations. If they can prove they are bad guys, fine- but it's my (and many others') belief that most Guantanamo Bay detainees have been subjected to summary (and internationally illegal) interment without access to counsel or any norms of lawful detention, becaue the US cannot provide any valid reason for those detentions.
The larger point is that it's a tad hypocritical of the US to employ immoral methods, like the proxy use of countries that sanction torture to extract 'confessions', and then slate radical Muslims for not adhering to standards of 'civilised behaviour'.
The unpalatable truth is that we must, and must be SEEN to, play by the Rules- that's fundamentally (if you'll pardon the pun) what differentiates those who believe in the rule of Law from the barbarians......
"a harmless drudge, that busies himself in tracing the original, and detailing the
signification...."
signification...."
Re: Guantanamo Bay
Just to clarify things, Nobby, kick who out?
I know JJ's already made the point, but it's worth repeating. Part of the problem with being the good guys is you have to be civilised, and allow people access to legal representation and a fair trial and presumed innocent until proved guilty. We could act the same way as al Qaida, the Taliban, Hizbollah, the Red Brigades, Shining Path, IRA and all the others do, but we're supposed to be above the ends justify the means and might is right arguments. Free speech is entrenched in our society, and in American society, and in most western nations, as a fundemental human right. While I may think Hamza is an odious, pathetic, hate-filled, stinking, festering excuse for a human being, he still has a right to express his opinions---however ridiculous they are. In many ways, it's important to elements of this country to have him here, because he is a poster boy for all we hate in Islamic extremists, which is why The Sun, The Express and The Mail will quote him every time he opens his mouth. But he is not representative of Muslims, and he is certainly not representative of British Muslims.
Those arrested by the US military and held in Camp Delta are mainly young people looking to make sense out of their world. A lot of them are looking for absolutes: right and wrong, us and them. There is no middle ground. If they were white British people, they might join the Socialist Workers Party and call for revolution, or the British National Party and seek a white state with enforced relocation (I'm not going to say repatriation since so many people of Asia and West Indian blood were born here and this is their country) of non-whites. This is their extremism. They didn't get it from their parents---many are rebelling against what their parents believe in and stand for, just as those young white people join extremist parties that would horrify their parents.
We can apparently forgive the home-grown rebel who throws petrol bombs at police during riots, even though we don't understand what it is they're standing for. But someone with a different racial or cultural background doesn't get the same treatment.
Kick them out? Where to?
I know JJ's already made the point, but it's worth repeating. Part of the problem with being the good guys is you have to be civilised, and allow people access to legal representation and a fair trial and presumed innocent until proved guilty. We could act the same way as al Qaida, the Taliban, Hizbollah, the Red Brigades, Shining Path, IRA and all the others do, but we're supposed to be above the ends justify the means and might is right arguments. Free speech is entrenched in our society, and in American society, and in most western nations, as a fundemental human right. While I may think Hamza is an odious, pathetic, hate-filled, stinking, festering excuse for a human being, he still has a right to express his opinions---however ridiculous they are. In many ways, it's important to elements of this country to have him here, because he is a poster boy for all we hate in Islamic extremists, which is why The Sun, The Express and The Mail will quote him every time he opens his mouth. But he is not representative of Muslims, and he is certainly not representative of British Muslims.
Those arrested by the US military and held in Camp Delta are mainly young people looking to make sense out of their world. A lot of them are looking for absolutes: right and wrong, us and them. There is no middle ground. If they were white British people, they might join the Socialist Workers Party and call for revolution, or the British National Party and seek a white state with enforced relocation (I'm not going to say repatriation since so many people of Asia and West Indian blood were born here and this is their country) of non-whites. This is their extremism. They didn't get it from their parents---many are rebelling against what their parents believe in and stand for, just as those young white people join extremist parties that would horrify their parents.
We can apparently forgive the home-grown rebel who throws petrol bombs at police during riots, even though we don't understand what it is they're standing for. But someone with a different racial or cultural background doesn't get the same treatment.
Kick them out? Where to?
Pervert
The Worlds Biggest Collector Of Ben Dover DVD`s
Koppite Till I Die
Remember - You`ll Never Walk Alone
The Worlds Biggest Collector Of Ben Dover DVD`s
Koppite Till I Die
Remember - You`ll Never Walk Alone
Re: Guantanamo Bay
Beautifully-put.
"a harmless drudge, that busies himself in tracing the original, and detailing the
signification...."
signification...."
Re: Guantanamo Bay
Sorry guys, point taken. I did not want to use the term "Kick them out" my only defence is it was late and i had a lot of Holsten Pills Lager to drink!!!.
My point was of course to secure free speech for any person, however, i was trying to ask "Why" are these men being repatriated to the United Kingdom to potentially stand trial for Terrorism charges relating to fighting in Afghanistan/Iraq?.
I know the americans operate a "Shoot First ask questions later" strategy when conducting military operations. But i do not believe the the americans would hold someone for this lenghth of time IF they had not done anything wrong.
I, as a taxpayer, do not want my money being used to give ANY Terrorist a cushy sentence in the UK.
NOBBY
My point was of course to secure free speech for any person, however, i was trying to ask "Why" are these men being repatriated to the United Kingdom to potentially stand trial for Terrorism charges relating to fighting in Afghanistan/Iraq?.
I know the americans operate a "Shoot First ask questions later" strategy when conducting military operations. But i do not believe the the americans would hold someone for this lenghth of time IF they had not done anything wrong.
I, as a taxpayer, do not want my money being used to give ANY Terrorist a cushy sentence in the UK.
NOBBY
As the great scholar say's "Anybody who said they are a Brain Surgeon are really a Taxi Driver?"