The Underclass , and how to Help it

[Fastbike]

There is a lively debate in another thread which has been hijacked to discuss this issue.
I would like to ask, are we agreed that there is an "underclass" , that examing how it was allowed/caused to form should only be of concern to us to prevent it growing or recurring.
Should it's members be helped to escape it, and if so how can this be done ?

[Sir Noel Plum]

I agree there is an underclass, I put out the burning cars they steal every night.
One of the reasons it has formed is because the societal pressure from their communtiy to behave has gone. When your neighbours and parents praise you for stealing and violence rather than dressing you down a downward spiral has begun.
In my view there is so much criminality comitted by a relatively small number of people that until we crack down on it properly nothing will change. At present some of these guys yo-yo in and out of prison for a couple of months at a time, something they are quite happy to do. Sentencing in this country is totally fucking pathetic, we might as well not bother. I think someone who has committed say 50 burglaries or stolen 50 vehicles should be getting 10-15 years not two or three months, what disincentive is their to commit crime when you know that at the very worst you get caught and very little will happen to you.
The communities these people live in will never get back to normal until the scum are removed, not for a couple of weeks to reemerge and carry on their behaviour, but for years at a time. Everything is suffering, there are areas of grimsby where I live with streets where only one or two houses are now occupied because the scum have driven everybody out, nobody wants to live there anymore, not even the scum! I can't help but feel that even the spiralling house prices are partly the result of this, nobody wants to live in towns and cities anymore, there is perfectly good housing stock that's practically unsaleable because we just allow people chance after chance after chance to commit crime after crime after crime.
I'm not saying this is the only action we need to take and I'm all for helping people out of a hole, self inflicted or otherwise, but until we stop crime being a viable career choice nothing will change.

SNP.

[Illinoisblue]

Don't want to sound all JFK about it, but too many people are only interested in wht they can get for nowt off the state and what benefits they're 'entitled' to despite never contributing to the system.

Lack of discipline also plays a part in creating and sustaining the 'underclass'. It's a cliche but time was if you got in trouble at school and were hit by a teacher you'd get double the punishment at home.

Now you'd get a parent racing to the school, banging on about their 'rights' and quite possibly threatening to hit the teacher.

[Officer Dibble]

Here, here, Sir Noel (love the handle). Perhaps you'd care to cast your eyes over this piece that tends to concur with your findings -



Regarding Grimsby; I know exactly what you mean, rarely have I come across such a Chavy area. I found Immingham to be particularly awful. The thing that sticks in my mind to this day were the legions of scruffy teenage girls all pushing prams up and down the street. I remember thinking; if a child costs between ?50,000 - ?100,000 over the period 1-16, how the fuck can these girls, who look like they haven't got the proverbial pot, afford one? The answer of course is that it's Joe 'Sucker' Taxpayer who is being fleeced to subsidise the new generation of Chavs.


Officer Dibble

[Peter]

I bet all those baby chavs had their ears pierced, didn't they?

[Officer Dibble]

No, not their ears. That would be far to classy. It was their navals!


Officer Dibble

[Rude Boy]

I've never visited Grimsby but Braintree in Essex is very chavy indeed, it's my nearest town so I've noticed it's increasing chavscape over the years. You've got your regular young chavs with modified but still crap cars and caps and older chavs who've invested in laughably overpriced houses on awful estates with speedbumps every few metres and bypasses for a view. They go out less due to their crippling mortgages but can still be seen out and about.

In fact Essex as a whole has a clear distinction between the chavs and the chav-nots.

The chav Mecca In Braintree is a Chicago's bar where in it's short period of existence two killings have already taken place.

[Heathray]

I work in supported housing so have a good insight. Some are victims, some unlucky, others bone idle twats who expect handouts and have no inclination to do a days work.

Problem is society lets many people throught the net who need serious help, be it with debt, mental health or drink/drugs. The government red tape strangles my team by setting very strict criteria as to who gets help and who doesn't.

[Sir Noel Plum]

You find Immingham particularly bad: that's where I live LOL!!!

Some parts of Immingham aren't that great but I can tell you that even in the worst areas there is nothing to compare with the worst areas of grimsby (traditionally Nunsthorpe and the grangne and now parts of east marsh). Some of the people in these areas live like animals. I used to be a student and our house was messy and dirty but nothing like some of these places.
I agree with you the amount of tax that goes into subsidising these people is incredible and they generally demand everything is done for them, they won't do anything for themselves. Problems with their kids? Social services problem. Smoke damage after a minor fire? Councils job to clean it up for them. The idea that they might actually try and sort something out themselves is totally alien to them.

SNP.