The Underclass , and how to Help it

[mart]

"You could send a chimp to Harvard..." but he could end up as President of the US.

Mart

[Officer Dibble]

You're splitting hairs mart. We know what he means, you know what he means, but you're exercised by the fact that the consensus here is that Chavs are crap and a product of the socialist welfare state.


Officer Dibble

[Pervert]

Now that is scary!!!!!!!

Almost makes one nostalgic for slimy Leon, slimy Ken Baker and slimy Michael Howard.

[Deuce Bigolo]

Common Sense Parties in Australia by enlarge only get the protest vote and nothing else>people vote purely on the bais of whats in it for them not whats in the best interests of Society

Even with people saying the 2 major parties are like tweedle dee & tweedle dumb they still manage to soak up 80% of the vote
which proves one thing

Money used through smart Advertising Wins Elections

I do wonder why people in Nursing homes are still allowed to cast a vote when its pretty clear most are away with the pixies

Would be interesting to see how many people would actually vote if it wasn't compulsory in Australia?

cheers
B....OZ

[Spook]

"But nearly so much as you would like to believe spooky. The prime determining factor in this arena is the quality and quantity of grey matter awarded to you by the gods of DNA - You could send a chimp to Harvard, but he's still not going to be able to create the next Microsoft."

So the fact that so many children of poor parents end up poor and so many children of rich kids end up rich is due to inherited intelligence?

"Also, you wouldn't be turning your nose up at us "denigrating chavs"

Read my post - I wasn't. Its the words "nothing wrong with that" that are the clue.

I was saying that accusing me of "classism" because I think that society should place curbs on capitalist excess is no more classist than mocking chavs.

"You?d soon change your tune if, in the hypothetical event of you being ordered to live (by a ultra leftist government) in a vacant council house on a Chav estate in, say, Grimsby. Yeah, the old highfalutin' University socialist principles would soon go out of the window when the Chavs started smashing your windows, beating up you kids, playing '50 Cent' at full blast in the house next door - at 2.00 AM - scratching your People Carrier, setting fire to your garden shed and breaking in to nick your DVD player while you?re out at Labour Party community awareness meeting.

Yep, talk is cheap when all your pals are nice civilised university whallas from nice neighbourhoods where they sell Ciabatia in the local grocery store."

Nice rant - but entirely meaningless and nothing to do with what I was talking about.

No-one wants to live next to unpleasant neighbours in an unpleasant neighbourhood. The argument is how do you change things to ensure that as few people as possible are forced to live in such a situation.

"Officer Dibbs ?puttin' a couple of strategic spokes in spooky?s wheel."

Surely thats "Officer Dibbs - putting spokes into wheels that don't exist and amply demonstrating the quality and quantity his grey matter."

[Fastbike]

How can you label any prospective Home Secretary reactionary when Blindgit is in post ?

[mart]

So I'm splitting hairs because I try to correct or elucidate someones statement. Perhaps the result of a University education and reading the Guardian.
No, I don't know what he means if he doesn't mean 5 generations. Perhaps you can explain it to me.

Mart

[Officer Dibble]

"So the fact that so many children of poor parents end up poor and so many children of rich kids end up rich is due to inherited intelligence?"

Your tone seems to suggest they you find that a radical, or even outlandish, concept?


"I think that society should place curbs on capitalist excess"

I agree, up to a point. I wouldn't want to see the kind of huge gulf in the distribution of wealth and opportunity that we see in some Latin American countries. We only differ on the causes and how we might best address that issue.


"Nice rant - but entirely meaningless and nothing to do with what I was talking about."

I'd have thought the meaning was clear - I was just having a dig at the middle classes and their airy-fairy idealism and highlighting how annoying it was that they don't really know these people (the chavs) and don't have to live with the consequences of their permissive policies relating to such.

"Surely thats Officer Dibbs - putting spokes into wheels that don't exist and amply demonstrating the quality and quantity his grey matter."

There's noffin' rong wiv' mi filbert. It might only be a Chavey one, but it's as fit as a butcher's mutt.


Officer Dibbs

[Fastbike]

Oh what sweet demonstration of how easy it is to be condescending , when the shit isn't piling up on your doorstep . Chav families do not follow any of the middle class norms that a Guardian reader accepts as easily as the Catholic church did the sun going round the earth . Regretably its all too possible.
Step /illigitimate / refugees from justice in other countries where the extended family also causes misery /waifs/strays etc etc etc !
You must also note that most contributors to this debate have pointed out without prompting that they have no problem with helping the "deserving poor" and I question the smug moral certainty that the well insulted middle class Liberal summons when they airily dismiss that distinction out of hand .

[mart]

You made a specific statement . Back it up or explain or are you just a rabblerouser.
You don't know my circumstances, you just try to diss me as a smug liberal. Seems to me this forum is becoming a recruiting ground for the BNP.

Mart