BNP

[Pervert]

We have the same thing. Every year, hundreds of east Europeans travel to this area to pick berries. Schoolkids do it---or used to--but they have no staying power, whereas the migrants are willing to live in squalid conditions to make money during the season.

Incidentally, two of those foreign workers (Poles) managed to recover a teenage boy from the river where he'd gone missing. Too late to help him, as he'd been underwater about 15 minutes. But these are the kind of people being dismissed as trying to sneak into the country and claim benefits.

As you say, rather easy for the homegrown benefit brigade to point the finger at strangers, but I know who I'd rather have in the country.

[Deuce Bigolo]

Comes down to one thing...we're soft in the west and take conditions for granted....welfare isn't a right,its a luxury if you look at countries where it doesn't exist

As some have said...the first generation lay the founation...the second build it...and the third spend it....think we might be in the fourth phase at present
the welfare generation...dependent on others for life

I can still remember my Father working 3/4 Jobs(fireman,concreting,packing freight trains,security guard)every 8 days.He loathed the lack of free time and the hard toil but thats what you do for the family unit

Sacrifices have to be made for anything worthwhile to be achieved

cheers
B....OZ

[Pervert]

All that is very true.

Can't help but think of the Asian families (and many others from elsewhere in the world) in this country who came and built a new life from nothing, slogged away all hours without days off, and two generations their grandchildren are still being told to "go back home" by people with no sense and no sense of shame.

[Deuce Bigolo]

You see the jealousy/envy every where you go but when you pose the question,"would you sacrifice your personal life to get ahead" as they have,most will say no

If your not prepared to do what it takes then no one else can take the blame for your failure

Personally I don't envy them at all because I've seen it up close firsthand via my Cousins.Greek Uncle retired at 42 multi millionaire after working 7 days a week for 20 years.He missed his kids growing up because everything revolved around making money & business associates.His 2 kids were always bribed with money to go and do something somewhere else while he and the wife was entertaining business associates
Wife diagnosed with cancer age 45.....game over

The grass isn't always greener on the other side

Even the migrant families who still run their 'sweatshops' from home are having a hard time convincing their kids to take the same route.When your life is school,sleep & work(10/16 hour days) its not hard to see why

When you work out what they get paid by the big labels for working these ludicrously long 100+ hour 7 day weeks the hourly rate works out to about AUS3-00 an hour.You could earn the same working 2/3 of days at a fast feud outlet in a quarter of the time

cheers
B....OZ

[alec]

A few years ago a Times journalist did an article on racism in the South Wales valleys, an area where the only people of a Pakistani or Indian origin are either shopkeepers or doctors. He interviewed some yobs hanging about on Tonypandy square and got the usual line - 'these people coming over here taking our jobs' trotted out. When he pointed out that his interviewees hardly had the qualifications to clean a doctor's surgery let alone become a doctor, he was threatened with violence.

(Not that I agree with your Norman-Tebbit-like 'get on your bike' views, mind you. If everyone unemployed in former coal-mining areas and other areas of shut-down heavy industry moved in search of a job, the South-East of England would sink beneath the sea faster than it's already doing. You have to persuade some industries to move to where the potential workers are if only to avoid agglomeration diseconomies in areas like London. There are already huge problems that workers in essential services - like nurses, ambulance drivers, etc. - can't afford the accommodation costs of the South-East. High rents, high house prices etc. are caused by high demand.)

[Pervert]

If any Tebbit type sentiments were expressed in my post, Alec, they were certainly unintentional. The point being made was more to do with the work ethic, and transferring ones own sins on to other people.

[Jacques]

I don't think you can blame religion, the prophet Abraham is considered the founder of the faith for Islam, as he is also for Judaism and Christianity.

It was geography that separated them. If you want to view Islam as an "evil" religion, you must also look at the Christian and Jewish fanatics who kill, and bomb in the name of God.

Richas is right, it is extremism that is the problem not faith.

[alec]

I was thinking of a couple of points in Deuce's posts, probably not intended in quite the same way as Tebbit's.

[Deuce Bigolo]

Of course my views are from what I know-Australia

So probably doesn't translate that well to the UK...ie fruit picking

I wasn't suggesting a mass migration of people seeking work but people being prepared to travel to where there is labor required.Of course if the cost of living is higher then logic says their going to need assistance
Better to have someone earning a wage and paying tax than welfare,anyday

Your right about depressed areas where the single biggest industry has left town long ago(maybe they should start coal mining again given the Chinese-estimated 30,000 mines,have never stopped).They need to be re-built from the ground up by both industry & government for the good of all in the long term.

Far too many Industries these days are playing a dirty game of playing areas of against each other trying to gain the maximum concessions which is detrimental to society overall and does nothing but line the pockets of the shareholders with tax payers money

Pure greed IMHO

cheers
B....OZ

[mart]

There are instances in the UK of companies getting Govt./local authority assistance to re-locate then buggering off to some other country where labour costs are cheaper.

Mart