Marcus,
I think the 'what do you prefer' thread is a great idea
but confess to be slightly confused, especially with
the addition of Alec's category "f) - Erotic."
Surely, if porn has a purpose then it is eroticsm -
so there can be only one answer. We like porn that
turns us on.
I will vote 'f' if no-one can offer a better explanation
but it would be nice if the powers that be could offer
a few examples so that we understand the category
headings...
a) Glossy American (e.g. Vivid, Metro)
b) Glossy European (e.g. Private)
etc. etc. - I am assuming c) d) and e) are 'gonzo' style.
As further evidence of my confusion - Marcus' own vids
(and they are quality) seem to fall between the pillars
"Names" and "Unknowns" : the girls are new - many of
them are "one-hit wonders", others go on to become
"Names"
Into what category would you put your own stuff Marcus ?
(other than f!)
Attn marcusallen & alec
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marcusallen
Re: Attn marcusallen & alec
Hi Lurker,
Fine point. e.g. my own stuff is with "wannabees", some of whom go on to be well-known and others as you quite rightly say - to paraphrase - fade into oblivion.
However, I class "Erotic" as something like looking up the skirt and down the blowse syndrome, ala Trevor Watson and John Mason (when he is in a dispassionate mood).
Unfortunately there is no market for this as all the Top Shelf titles are controlled/owned by four companies who have long decided what "The Public" want.
I have seen thousands of naked ladies, as have all the pros in the biz and it means absolutely zilch. BUT, a glimpse of leg, a shot of cleavage -WOW.
At the risk of offending anyone's sesibilities or predilictions, (Not that I give a fuck anyway) I would have to repeat what I have said before that fisting, anal, DP are not erotic but a violation of the lovely female form that I have admired- and still do - for a very, very long time.
It is 1-30a.m and I am drunk but sober, capische.
This is a long-winded reply to your question but I make no apology or excuse. Anyone who finds offence herein can go to hell with my utmost blessing. Vote "f" if I understand you correctly.
Fine point. e.g. my own stuff is with "wannabees", some of whom go on to be well-known and others as you quite rightly say - to paraphrase - fade into oblivion.
However, I class "Erotic" as something like looking up the skirt and down the blowse syndrome, ala Trevor Watson and John Mason (when he is in a dispassionate mood).
Unfortunately there is no market for this as all the Top Shelf titles are controlled/owned by four companies who have long decided what "The Public" want.
I have seen thousands of naked ladies, as have all the pros in the biz and it means absolutely zilch. BUT, a glimpse of leg, a shot of cleavage -WOW.
At the risk of offending anyone's sesibilities or predilictions, (Not that I give a fuck anyway) I would have to repeat what I have said before that fisting, anal, DP are not erotic but a violation of the lovely female form that I have admired- and still do - for a very, very long time.
It is 1-30a.m and I am drunk but sober, capische.
This is a long-winded reply to your question but I make no apology or excuse. Anyone who finds offence herein can go to hell with my utmost blessing. Vote "f" if I understand you correctly.
-
magoo
Sometimes Less Is More
Regarding Marcus` point re eroticism. I beleive that often less is more. A lot of the "in yer face" gonzo although extremely explicit fails to be erotic. I recently saw a softcore arty Italian film by Tinto Brass. It contained a scene where a pretty girl wearing a dress was crossing and uncrossing her legs in a public place revealing the fact that she had no underwear on. I found that scene far more erotic than a lot of h/c because of the way it was filmed and the sense of expectation that it built up in the viewer. Erotica should stimulate the viewers brains aswell as their knobs.
So thats why I voted "F". Yes Marcus tonight I am sober so my vote was a considered one.
So thats why I voted "F". Yes Marcus tonight I am sober so my vote was a considered one.
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lurker
Erotic - up-skirt & down-blowse
Cheers Marcus,
I too had had a few ales last night. Whether this
contributed to my confusion we'll never know !
I enjoy tease as part of a scene - Marcus' interview
segments are a classic example - but IMHO that tease
needs to be followed up with some action...
Accepting your description of 'Erotic' - to be honest,
I will have to vote for 'Names' because there are
certain stars in this business (some of whom post to
this forum) who consistently come up with the goods
and I never tire of watching.
This may me that I play into the hands of the
corporates, but f**k it - thats my taste.
-
EC
Re: Attn marcusallen & alec
Who are these four companies and what exactly have they decided the public wants.
Personally I read Erotic as including softcore films (Channel 5 Shannon Tweed films etc.) but everyone will have their own interpretation of what each of those categories mean.
Personally I read Erotic as including softcore films (Channel 5 Shannon Tweed films etc.) but everyone will have their own interpretation of what each of those categories mean.
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Officer Dibble
Re: Sometimes Less Is More
Marcus and Magoo are quite right. Indeed it's the most relevant concise thing Marcus has said for a while - drunk or not! More please Michael.
Filming 'the girl next door is one thing' but gonzo is something else - and it's shite! It seems to have little to do with sex (what we were hoping for) and more to do with some kind of Olympic sport, the object being to 'out Grosse' the previous volume of whatever tiresome series it maybe - 'Bukake Bollocks' 'Buttreamers Volume Umpteen? and all that crap. The Americans are the main culprits, and frankly, they seem to have totally lost the plot. I find the majority of contempory American porn totally unwatchable. Sadly, we find that some of our more unimaginative Brit producers aping this shitty style. Their crap material will never find a wider audience and then they sit around scratching their heads wondering why they're skint! Gonzo is a road to nowhere for porn, cause were do you go from there? Slap the girls a bit harder maybe? Spit on them a bit more? Get THEM to spit a bit more? Or maybe make their arseholes 'gape' more? Give me strength!
Of course some punters who don't know any better lap it up. They think that is what they should be watching, whether they like it or not, because everyone else is. These knob heads don't have any particular views, or opinions, or indeed a mind of their own. They want to feel part of the crowd, to feel trendy. They want to say to their pals "Hey, I've just got the latest --- ---- video . It's the greatest!? That gives them instant cred with the crowd. And that's why we see no talent pop stars selling loads of records.
I have a revolutionary idea! Why don't producers find some nice appealing girly type girls - girl next door or 'stunnas' -and film them in sexy scenarios incorporating the erotic devices alluded to by Marcus of an initial glimpse of stocking top, a chance glance down an impressive cleavage, before things move on to some god old fashioned fucking and sucking - you know, like the kind of sex real people have and not the kind that cyber porn sex sluts have - those type of girls who look like refugees from a 'Mad Max' movie! I recon it could catch on. So, er I'll vote 'F'
Officer Dibble
Filming 'the girl next door is one thing' but gonzo is something else - and it's shite! It seems to have little to do with sex (what we were hoping for) and more to do with some kind of Olympic sport, the object being to 'out Grosse' the previous volume of whatever tiresome series it maybe - 'Bukake Bollocks' 'Buttreamers Volume Umpteen? and all that crap. The Americans are the main culprits, and frankly, they seem to have totally lost the plot. I find the majority of contempory American porn totally unwatchable. Sadly, we find that some of our more unimaginative Brit producers aping this shitty style. Their crap material will never find a wider audience and then they sit around scratching their heads wondering why they're skint! Gonzo is a road to nowhere for porn, cause were do you go from there? Slap the girls a bit harder maybe? Spit on them a bit more? Get THEM to spit a bit more? Or maybe make their arseholes 'gape' more? Give me strength!
Of course some punters who don't know any better lap it up. They think that is what they should be watching, whether they like it or not, because everyone else is. These knob heads don't have any particular views, or opinions, or indeed a mind of their own. They want to feel part of the crowd, to feel trendy. They want to say to their pals "Hey, I've just got the latest --- ---- video . It's the greatest!? That gives them instant cred with the crowd. And that's why we see no talent pop stars selling loads of records.
I have a revolutionary idea! Why don't producers find some nice appealing girly type girls - girl next door or 'stunnas' -and film them in sexy scenarios incorporating the erotic devices alluded to by Marcus of an initial glimpse of stocking top, a chance glance down an impressive cleavage, before things move on to some god old fashioned fucking and sucking - you know, like the kind of sex real people have and not the kind that cyber porn sex sluts have - those type of girls who look like refugees from a 'Mad Max' movie! I recon it could catch on. So, er I'll vote 'F'
Officer Dibble
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alec
Re: Attn marcusallen & alec
I think, in combination, the above posts got close to what I meant by erotic, i.e. including the tease aspect, but also going on to something more explicit, along with magoo's reference to imagination. Eroticism stimulates via the brain. Not all porn does this, even thought it may turn you on. I had in mind some examples of so-called Goldan Age porn where some attempt was made to create an erotic situation, and then followed on with the hard core, possibly including some of the extreme acts that Marcus doesn't like, but not necessarily. For example, in a gang bang video, what ssexiest part potetnially is the situation leading up to it, that shows you how a gang bang might actually occur in reality and enables you to believe it might. Usually this is not there and the participants just get down to it.
Some recent vignette videos manage to create an erotic situation sometimes, e.g. some of the vignettes in the Cameo Collection series, but I've seen no 'feature' film made in recent years that does. The last were probably the Marc Dorcel videos starring Laure Sainclair
The most erotic video I've seen recently is one made in 1974, directed by American Radley Metzger, filmed in Paris closely followign a French erotic novel called L'Image. the film is soon to be released, or has just been released, on DVD and is calle The Punishment of Anne. The main theme is of a girl (Mary Menudm aka Rebecca Brooke) dominated by an older woman and made to perform various sexual acts, and take corporal punishment, from her and her younger male friend. However, the hardest things you actually see in graphic detail are blow jobs. This is not the subject matter I usually want to watch, but the situations are erotic, sometimes they are only suggested and the whole effect is a turn on. Metzger went on to direct The Opening of Misty Beethoven and Naked Came the Stranger and so on.
Lots of the French films of the late 70s and early 80s starring the likes of Brigitte Lahaie and Marilyn Jess are also examples of what I mean.
'Erotic' means different things to diffetrent people when you get down to specifics, but I think the important elements are 'works through the imagination', 'tease', 'situation', 'build up'.
Softcore would not be excluded. Tinto Brass is a good example and I must get round to watching some of his stuff. I've been meaning to for some time.
Some recent vignette videos manage to create an erotic situation sometimes, e.g. some of the vignettes in the Cameo Collection series, but I've seen no 'feature' film made in recent years that does. The last were probably the Marc Dorcel videos starring Laure Sainclair
The most erotic video I've seen recently is one made in 1974, directed by American Radley Metzger, filmed in Paris closely followign a French erotic novel called L'Image. the film is soon to be released, or has just been released, on DVD and is calle The Punishment of Anne. The main theme is of a girl (Mary Menudm aka Rebecca Brooke) dominated by an older woman and made to perform various sexual acts, and take corporal punishment, from her and her younger male friend. However, the hardest things you actually see in graphic detail are blow jobs. This is not the subject matter I usually want to watch, but the situations are erotic, sometimes they are only suggested and the whole effect is a turn on. Metzger went on to direct The Opening of Misty Beethoven and Naked Came the Stranger and so on.
Lots of the French films of the late 70s and early 80s starring the likes of Brigitte Lahaie and Marilyn Jess are also examples of what I mean.
'Erotic' means different things to diffetrent people when you get down to specifics, but I think the important elements are 'works through the imagination', 'tease', 'situation', 'build up'.
Softcore would not be excluded. Tinto Brass is a good example and I must get round to watching some of his stuff. I've been meaning to for some time.
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alec
Re: Sometimes Less Is More
You posted this while I was writing my reply. They seem to agtree in essentials.
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EC
Re: Attn marcusallen & alec
Did you see the documentary film about Ron Jeremy the other night.
He made a comment that since video arrived and filmmakers stopped shooting sex films on 35mm film, characters and characterisation declined in films. The point being that if you know the characters in the film, and those characters are well defined then you emphasise more with them (the acting is usually inherently better when stars have to characterise more) and therefore the sexuality and eroticism of the situations they are in are that much more heightened for the viewer.
For some reason storylines in films are considered to be an Americanism - never understood the reason why British sex films feel they should exclude storylines and characterisations.
He made a comment that since video arrived and filmmakers stopped shooting sex films on 35mm film, characters and characterisation declined in films. The point being that if you know the characters in the film, and those characters are well defined then you emphasise more with them (the acting is usually inherently better when stars have to characterise more) and therefore the sexuality and eroticism of the situations they are in are that much more heightened for the viewer.
For some reason storylines in films are considered to be an Americanism - never understood the reason why British sex films feel they should exclude storylines and characterisations.