Is this what is known as liberating Iraq?

[Sam Slater]

[quote]Anybody alive in Iraq by 2003 probably had nothing to fear from their own president as it meant they weren't a target and he had had since 1979 to do something about it. [/quote]

Or they were just oppressed that much and were living in fear to speak out.

That's like saying all Jews still alive in 1945 had survived 10 years of the Nazi's and had nothing to fear. Keith, we don't always agree, but you don't come across stupid.

How the fuck could we really know how bad life was under Saddam? He didn't actively advertise all the torture and suffering did he?

What makes me laugh is that people easily call Geoffrey Archer a cunt, and laugh jollily along (including me), but he never killed anybody, but on the other hand deem Saddam (who killed untold thousands, tortured more, and oppressed millions) to be a decent guy.

Only the Iraqi people in 50 years time will be able to judge whether the war was a good, or bad thing for their nation. In the meantime, we need to be more concerned about why these scummy soldiers will be eligible for parole within 10 years instead of getting life, rather than point scoring.

[andy at handiwork]

Sam Slater wrote:
'.....but on the other hand deem Saddam (who killed untold thousands, tortured more, and oppressed millions) to be a decent guy.'

Who would that be?

[Sam Slater]

[quote]Who would that be?[/quote]

Read the forums.

It's all relative. I didn't mean 'decent guy' compared to mother terasa. I mean relative to other 'less harmful' individuals.

[Sam Slater]

[quote]The war was f*cking well illegal[/quote]

So was the genocidal acts Saddam committed. Probably more so. (though I admit 2 wrongs don't make a right.)

I didn't bring up the sanctions, but for the record, I too was against them, and they benefited nobody, while certainly having no affect on the Bathe party.

Again, we're spiralling into a debate about the legalities, and personal standing on the war, when this is about a minority of US soldiers, raping and killing. The war has been discussed before, and will probably be discussed again. I'm just saying that you've used the recent news to score political points, while I'm not.

[quote]I don't think simple brute oppression can do it, maybe he knew what he was doing.[/quote]

Of course he knew what he was doing. That only makes it worse in my eyes. At least if he didn't know what he was doing he'd have an excuse for all the blood on his -now dead- hands.

[c.j.jaxxon]

Nope. Blacks are capable of rape and murder (check 'Life' To Good For 'em) but here is the difference, blacks commit more crime, maybe 90 to 95% against other blacks. It's a crime of oportunity. They won't commit crime on anybody else because they know the stakes are higher so how come you don't hear anything about black soldiers involved in that kind of crap? As far as Cortez? Yes he has a spanish sounding name and I haven't seen him but I'll be willing to go out on a limb and say he's not hispanic because every now and then you'll see a white person with a spanish last name. Ya think he may be of spanish origin from SPAIN? Or he could have some origins from South America by generations.

[Sam Slater]

[quote]blacks commit more crime, maybe 90 to 95% against other blacks.[/quote]

I agree, though I doubt it's a concious thing. I guess 90% of white crime is against white people, and I guess 95% of Chinese crime is against.........(you guessed it) Chinese people.

I've forgotten the book (about psychology) I read around last Christmas. One chapter covered crime, and they found that even in multicultural society, whites were more prone to commit crimes against other whites, blacks against blacks and Latin people against other Latin peoples.

However having read your previous post again, I'm speechless. I'll quote you again c.j....

[quote]The way we see it here is probably those soldiers who raped that girl and shot the family thought that since they're american (and white) they could get away with it.[/quote]

I don't know any white person who thinks they can commit a crime and get away with it because of their colour. I doubt even hard-core racists think that way, in today's society.

The soldiers who committed this crime are only named, and I've not seen their faces. I don't know if they're white, black, Latino or purple with yellow spots. All I know is that they're scum. You were pretty quick off the mark to bring their colour into it, as it was obvious they were white, as only whites could commit rape and murder in these circumstances. I think that's wrong c.j.

Here's you're quote again which I've edited to show my point:

[quote]The way we see it here is probably those soldiers who raped that girl and shot the family thought that since they're american (and black) they could get away with it.[/quote]

Now.......how does that look?

I'm guessing my -edited- quote would be jumped upon within minutes on this board, but your quote goes unnoticed (or maybe passed over).

See my point?

[c.j.jaxxon]

I see your point but I don't think it was a mistake to point it out considering the circumstances of what, where, why and how it happened. And oh believe me, you give to much credit to "hardcore racist" Here in the US like I said before and I'm sure it applies there as well, let a black person walk on the wrong side of the railroad tracks and see what happens. Look Sam, the reason I say what I say and said is because I've seen these kinds of people whether it be the black gangbanger who lives in the "hood" and as an over the road truck driver traveling the countryside stopping in what we call "hick" towns where in some of these places racists tend to reside. I recall back in 1992 in a small town of Lebanon, Indiana I visited a restaurant and some college kid behind the counter taking orders went on to ask why I was there and the only blacks who should be there was the ones who attended the college there. I learned later that that little town of Lebanon was home to one or two racist organisations. I don't know how true it was but THIS guy is the type of guy who would join the services not undertanding or ever interacting with people who are different than them thus commiting the type crime believing that he has some type of privillage to do what he does and thinks he can get away with it. Do you see what I mean now?

[Sam Slater]

I sympathise c.j. I'm not being insensitive to racist victims, but was just pointing out that if I'd have said something similar about blacks, that comment would have been taken differently on this board, and in general society.

I can assure you with confidence that in the UK, I doubt any right minded white person, thinks they can commit any crime and get away with it just because of their colour. I can't speak for 'hill-billy- towns in the USA, here it's definitely not the case.

All I'm saying is that it's unfair to bring colour into the crimes that these soldiers did. Rape and murder is bad, no matter what colour the perpetrator is.

Anyway, you're posting early c.j. Go back to bed !laugh!

[c.j.jaxxon]

I know! It's 10:30am here and I'm cookin' breakfast. I would never accuse every white person of being a racist because I've met them and I know it ain't true. I think what I was doing was comparing the type of crime being commited and again where, why, and how it happened and of course any body who commits crime is no good for society and I wouldn't be offended because I understand why people do what they do (the perpetrators of said offences) so if it WAS a black person who did it I couldn't run and hide from it and I wouldn't make excuses for it however I might try to explain it (and as usual y'all would intellectualy beat me down for it !laugh!).