My local pub had a wet-shirt contest on bank holiday monday. It wasnt one where all the competitors are girls paid by the venue to come and compete. All the entrants were girls who are regulars at the pub, and around town.
It was all a little surreal seeing girls ive known or seen around for years, having water poured over them.
Getting to the point, what do the girls get out of this? All the men were gathered round like a pack of crazed dogs, shouting things like "get yer tits out for the lads" and "show us yer tits bitch!" (which nearly all the girls did, by ripping off the t-shirt, or lifting it up.)
I Just dont understand what the girls do it for, and what pleasure they can derive from it.
Please, someone enlighten me......
Why do girls do it???
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Allan
Re: Why do girls do it???
People as you have read on this board love to look at nude people. It turns them on.
But people also get turned on (male and female) posing nude in front of others (or topless in this case).
From time to time I have put on private shows for people with willing girls, just having sex. It is a turn on for me. I enjoy it more outside say in a field. I am no looker, I think I woulds say I am averge in looks, but it does make you feel good.
I am sad when you turn on tv and you have people who do not like being naked in front of there partners.
If you have the confidence to pose nude then you have confidece to do a lot more.
Yes, the men were being rude, but then again I bet these guys had big bear belleys, and have only had sex with one woman who is probably not much of a looker, and as such ha\tes women as they know they have no chance with them.
That to me is the sad thing, I find a lot of men do hate women, especially good looking girls.
To be a bore, at uni recently we did a session on preventing aggreshion, and it was noted that people use such talk as "you bitch", "slag" and so on to de-humanise a person, if you do this then a person becomes not worth anything in your mind, and this can lead on to rape or beating up a girl.
I do not myself like such words as 'slag, tart, sl;ut' and so on, not because it offends, its because it de-humanises women and put them into a position where rape could come, that again is why in porn such words as 'f*ch, sh*g, give the sl*g a good seeing to' and so on, helps make the girls sound like filth.
I have oten been asked in fact told that"girlsd that do photo shoots are just slags arnt they?", I am suprised how often this is said, and do think that the words that go with porn makes people think this.
I myself do not belive poern degrades women. In some ways I do belive it is art, after all what is art.
But I do think 'words' do degrade women, and many web sites seem to describe women as sluts, sl*gs and so on. I have never yet met a girl who is a sl*g, or a slut. I have met lots of women who love to showe there bodies, many have only one partner and do not sleep with anyone else, some do like sex with others.
I do belive that what ever anyone says, women have a much higher sex drive than anyone else.
I have chated to a lot of women, and I often, and I do mean often, have been told that the girls have though about sex a lot with other people besides there partners. I do suspect now that when a girl says she has never thought or wanted sex with anyonce else that she is telling porkeys, but still its there lives.
Allan
Sory to be a bore.
But people also get turned on (male and female) posing nude in front of others (or topless in this case).
From time to time I have put on private shows for people with willing girls, just having sex. It is a turn on for me. I enjoy it more outside say in a field. I am no looker, I think I woulds say I am averge in looks, but it does make you feel good.
I am sad when you turn on tv and you have people who do not like being naked in front of there partners.
If you have the confidence to pose nude then you have confidece to do a lot more.
Yes, the men were being rude, but then again I bet these guys had big bear belleys, and have only had sex with one woman who is probably not much of a looker, and as such ha\tes women as they know they have no chance with them.
That to me is the sad thing, I find a lot of men do hate women, especially good looking girls.
To be a bore, at uni recently we did a session on preventing aggreshion, and it was noted that people use such talk as "you bitch", "slag" and so on to de-humanise a person, if you do this then a person becomes not worth anything in your mind, and this can lead on to rape or beating up a girl.
I do not myself like such words as 'slag, tart, sl;ut' and so on, not because it offends, its because it de-humanises women and put them into a position where rape could come, that again is why in porn such words as 'f*ch, sh*g, give the sl*g a good seeing to' and so on, helps make the girls sound like filth.
I have oten been asked in fact told that"girlsd that do photo shoots are just slags arnt they?", I am suprised how often this is said, and do think that the words that go with porn makes people think this.
I myself do not belive poern degrades women. In some ways I do belive it is art, after all what is art.
But I do think 'words' do degrade women, and many web sites seem to describe women as sluts, sl*gs and so on. I have never yet met a girl who is a sl*g, or a slut. I have met lots of women who love to showe there bodies, many have only one partner and do not sleep with anyone else, some do like sex with others.
I do belive that what ever anyone says, women have a much higher sex drive than anyone else.
I have chated to a lot of women, and I often, and I do mean often, have been told that the girls have though about sex a lot with other people besides there partners. I do suspect now that when a girl says she has never thought or wanted sex with anyonce else that she is telling porkeys, but still its there lives.
Allan
Sory to be a bore.
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Ruud Van Nistelrooy
Re: Why do girls do it???
I think youre right that the problem lies with the men. I mean, thats what I dont understand why the girls would want to show their tits to a pack of guys drooling and shouting "get yer tits out for the lads!"
I dont disapprove of them doing it at all, Im more than happy to admit I like seeing girls getting naked, but I certainly wouldnt be shouting "get 'em out bitch!" Im just curious as to why they want to do it, particuarly in that kind of environment.
I dont disapprove of them doing it at all, Im more than happy to admit I like seeing girls getting naked, but I certainly wouldnt be shouting "get 'em out bitch!" Im just curious as to why they want to do it, particuarly in that kind of environment.
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Dr No
Re: Why do girls do it???
Well er; maybe it gives them a buzz being the centre of attention? Maybe it gives them a buzz that they can work these guys into such a frenzy? Maybe that gives them a little feeling of power over something when in the rest of their daily lives they are probably hairdressers or shop assistants (it sounds like a working class pub) and have no power over anything. You don't need to be a psychologist, or sociologist to deduce that.
If the girls have grown up in that (working-class) environment the behaviour of the guys would seem nothing out of the ordinary and the girls would just see it as huge fun. On the other hand if some poncy, hand wringing, Guardian reading middleclass twat came in and opined that he, or she, was really concerned about the girls 'degrading' themselves in front of such 'abusive' and indeed 'damaged' men, then that would put a damper on everything and that really would harm the girls esteem. Hey, they were having a real good time till the social worker types came along!
Yes, the guys may shout 'slag' 'bitch' or whatever. But that's how those working-class guys they have been programmed by their peers to behave in such situations. There's not a lot of objective thought and self analysis in those circles - hey, I really know what I'm taking about here! - so they just mouth what the rest of the group is saying, to fit in and feel part ot 'the gang.' I believe 'Group Dynamics' is the technical term. You can see examples of it every night on TV - you know those mobs of people in third world countries mindlessly chanting their bullshit slogans. Do they look like they've really thought what they are saying?
So, Allan and Ruud, I wouldn't wring my hands too much. No girls, or guys, appear to have been harmed in the making of that Wet T-Shirt contest!
Dr No - for all those pesky sociological dilemmas.
If the girls have grown up in that (working-class) environment the behaviour of the guys would seem nothing out of the ordinary and the girls would just see it as huge fun. On the other hand if some poncy, hand wringing, Guardian reading middleclass twat came in and opined that he, or she, was really concerned about the girls 'degrading' themselves in front of such 'abusive' and indeed 'damaged' men, then that would put a damper on everything and that really would harm the girls esteem. Hey, they were having a real good time till the social worker types came along!
Yes, the guys may shout 'slag' 'bitch' or whatever. But that's how those working-class guys they have been programmed by their peers to behave in such situations. There's not a lot of objective thought and self analysis in those circles - hey, I really know what I'm taking about here! - so they just mouth what the rest of the group is saying, to fit in and feel part ot 'the gang.' I believe 'Group Dynamics' is the technical term. You can see examples of it every night on TV - you know those mobs of people in third world countries mindlessly chanting their bullshit slogans. Do they look like they've really thought what they are saying?
So, Allan and Ruud, I wouldn't wring my hands too much. No girls, or guys, appear to have been harmed in the making of that Wet T-Shirt contest!
Dr No - for all those pesky sociological dilemmas.
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Enzo
Re: Why do girls do it???
Don?t think it?s got anything to do with ?class?, unfortunately you will find twats from all walks of life.
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benspal
Re: Why do girls do it? It's definitely
I think it's a power thing. They love the fact that a crowd of men are gagging for them & are destined to get nowt!
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Crimpo
Re: Why do girls do it???
Enjoyed your post Alan - got me thinking.
Its all down to sexual power really isn't it? We can be as intellectual or as logical as we like about this - its a simple fact that everyone gets turned on by something. Its also a simple fact that some people are more attractive than others and so turn people on en masse.
By turning someone on you engender a reaction and that is a power and a positive one. We have all enjoyed it (even an ugly bug like me - on occasion) and I've no problem seeing what a rush it must be to exercise it en masse. From your post, you clearly do!
Ah, 'most men hate women'. I think that's very simplistic. I think a lot of men fear the power women have over them in this field. Some men hate women - sad but true.
On the language issue I mention one word - 'context'. Calling a woman a 'tart' or a 'horny little slag' can be the very opposite of dehumanising and/or abusive in the right circumstances. In other circumstances it can be completely out of order. Language is a wonderful and complex thing.
Is porn degrading - again it depends. Personally I think some porn is. I'm not too inclined to watch Cocktails (whatever number) - the descriptions I've read do nothing for me and I reckon its a quick route to a clampdown on production of all porn.
However, I think the vast majority of porn isn't degrading - certainly its no more degrading than working on a checkout for a minimum wage. The same for 'porn as exploitation'.
Is porn an art form - definitely its a craft and the distinctions as you suggest are very blurred. Art (or craft) can be high quality or low quality - porn likewise. As most readers know I have my favourite performers and I think that they can justifiably be regarded as significant artists. It is an unrecognised (by the mainstream) genre but to my view a fine porn performance is a considerable work of art since it affects and moves the watcher (and I do not only mean physically).
A fair number of women like to express themselves sexually with more than one partner - it is a beautiful thing to participate in. Its tremendously rewarding - and not just in the obvious way.
For the few boardistas who have made it to the bottom of this - I salute you!
Crimpo
Its all down to sexual power really isn't it? We can be as intellectual or as logical as we like about this - its a simple fact that everyone gets turned on by something. Its also a simple fact that some people are more attractive than others and so turn people on en masse.
By turning someone on you engender a reaction and that is a power and a positive one. We have all enjoyed it (even an ugly bug like me - on occasion) and I've no problem seeing what a rush it must be to exercise it en masse. From your post, you clearly do!
Ah, 'most men hate women'. I think that's very simplistic. I think a lot of men fear the power women have over them in this field. Some men hate women - sad but true.
On the language issue I mention one word - 'context'. Calling a woman a 'tart' or a 'horny little slag' can be the very opposite of dehumanising and/or abusive in the right circumstances. In other circumstances it can be completely out of order. Language is a wonderful and complex thing.
Is porn degrading - again it depends. Personally I think some porn is. I'm not too inclined to watch Cocktails (whatever number) - the descriptions I've read do nothing for me and I reckon its a quick route to a clampdown on production of all porn.
However, I think the vast majority of porn isn't degrading - certainly its no more degrading than working on a checkout for a minimum wage. The same for 'porn as exploitation'.
Is porn an art form - definitely its a craft and the distinctions as you suggest are very blurred. Art (or craft) can be high quality or low quality - porn likewise. As most readers know I have my favourite performers and I think that they can justifiably be regarded as significant artists. It is an unrecognised (by the mainstream) genre but to my view a fine porn performance is a considerable work of art since it affects and moves the watcher (and I do not only mean physically).
A fair number of women like to express themselves sexually with more than one partner - it is a beautiful thing to participate in. Its tremendously rewarding - and not just in the obvious way.
For the few boardistas who have made it to the bottom of this - I salute you!
Crimpo
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Allan
Re: Why do girls do it???
Hi,
I am not sure if the "poncy, hand wringing, Guardian reading middleclass twat" is meant to be me or not.
What is 'hand wringing'?
I am interested from the direction that your views comes from.
Are you one of the working class persons shouting "get your tits out", or are you a middle class chap making observasional points on the working classes?
Im my view people have changed, in the past, yes, such behavior was the norm for many, and so was racist comideions and so in.
These days, the working class, no longer exsists, the uk is no longer working class, its middle class. There are no longer working class jobs, and even the 'naff' jobs have been made middle class jobs. Most people now own houses, have a car, more than one tv and so on. In other words things have changed.
I am even suprised by how many people are now more relaxed about the gay community, no longer do chaps go out and come out with gay jokes, but more often they will be with gay friends, in some cases fake being gay to look cool.
I would never gfo up to somone and tell them to stop. I would be interested to have been there to see how manny of the men were being obusive, ie, was it all of them or just three say. Why were they saying these things, was it say to look clever or a big man in front of there mates. It may have been it was there girlfriend stripping and it was not said to be offensive but to be a sexy talk. Or was it that the men were obusive.
Yopu may say that such verbal shouting may be no harm, but one must question the motives. If in public a chap is happy to verbaly obuse a woman, what would he do in private?
I am no left wing person, indeed I ogject to people using political correct words as I do not think this is positive. One example is that at uni I am told that I cannot say third world country, I said I was born in a third world country and that I had the right to call it that and it offended me that I could not say that. I am proud of the country of my birth, and did not see that it degraded my country. I am going off the subject now.
OK, just to finish off, I watch part of, a program tonight on bbc2 about child porn and people who seek out children. It played out a tape of a conversation between a child and adult. The adult used words that were designed to dehumanise the girl, this was obuse. So my answer would be, is that to shout out to a girl "get your tits out bitch" is obuse. If you shout out get your tits out or nice ass, ok, this is not as nice as you have a attractive face and I find you a jolly interesting person, but it is meant to be a complement.
So I would say that you have to think is what has been said, is it obuse or a complement.
Calling somone a bitch is not a complement, and if this chap knew the girl, then I think this is far worse.
And yes, I love to see girls naked, porn I love, I am not ashamed of that.
But I would never dream of calling a girl in front of her who has treat up to letting us view her body a bitch.
I am not sure if the "poncy, hand wringing, Guardian reading middleclass twat" is meant to be me or not.
What is 'hand wringing'?
I am interested from the direction that your views comes from.
Are you one of the working class persons shouting "get your tits out", or are you a middle class chap making observasional points on the working classes?
Im my view people have changed, in the past, yes, such behavior was the norm for many, and so was racist comideions and so in.
These days, the working class, no longer exsists, the uk is no longer working class, its middle class. There are no longer working class jobs, and even the 'naff' jobs have been made middle class jobs. Most people now own houses, have a car, more than one tv and so on. In other words things have changed.
I am even suprised by how many people are now more relaxed about the gay community, no longer do chaps go out and come out with gay jokes, but more often they will be with gay friends, in some cases fake being gay to look cool.
I would never gfo up to somone and tell them to stop. I would be interested to have been there to see how manny of the men were being obusive, ie, was it all of them or just three say. Why were they saying these things, was it say to look clever or a big man in front of there mates. It may have been it was there girlfriend stripping and it was not said to be offensive but to be a sexy talk. Or was it that the men were obusive.
Yopu may say that such verbal shouting may be no harm, but one must question the motives. If in public a chap is happy to verbaly obuse a woman, what would he do in private?
I am no left wing person, indeed I ogject to people using political correct words as I do not think this is positive. One example is that at uni I am told that I cannot say third world country, I said I was born in a third world country and that I had the right to call it that and it offended me that I could not say that. I am proud of the country of my birth, and did not see that it degraded my country. I am going off the subject now.
OK, just to finish off, I watch part of, a program tonight on bbc2 about child porn and people who seek out children. It played out a tape of a conversation between a child and adult. The adult used words that were designed to dehumanise the girl, this was obuse. So my answer would be, is that to shout out to a girl "get your tits out bitch" is obuse. If you shout out get your tits out or nice ass, ok, this is not as nice as you have a attractive face and I find you a jolly interesting person, but it is meant to be a complement.
So I would say that you have to think is what has been said, is it obuse or a complement.
Calling somone a bitch is not a complement, and if this chap knew the girl, then I think this is far worse.
And yes, I love to see girls naked, porn I love, I am not ashamed of that.
But I would never dream of calling a girl in front of her who has treat up to letting us view her body a bitch.
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Ruud Van Nistelrooy
Re: Why do girls do it? It's definitely
You could be right about the power thing, but do you think that the girls who declined to take part are the more confident ones, or the less confident ones?
More confident because they dont feel the need to seek extra attention, or less confident because they arent confident enough about there body to show it?
Allan - There were about 70 men there watching, and Id say at least 60 of them were shouting the "get yer tits out for the lads" stuff.
More confident because they dont feel the need to seek extra attention, or less confident because they arent confident enough about there body to show it?
Allan - There were about 70 men there watching, and Id say at least 60 of them were shouting the "get yer tits out for the lads" stuff.