Thatcher speaks........twaddle as usual...
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tommy dickfingers
- Posts: 451
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Thatcher speaks........twaddle as usual...
Spot on robches,the likes of scargill were commie supporters and dragged the miners with them.
Re: Thatcher speaks........twaddle as usual...
"Thank you for admitting that the Russian nuclear missile capability was quite small pre-Cuban missile crisis."
I haven't admitted anything. I have informed you, because you did not appear to know, that in 1962 the USSR had quite weak strategic nuclear forces. After Cuba they built them up until they matched the USA's. Your comment that during the Cold War the USSR only had a few nuclear missiles is just wrong, and you may as well admit it.
"You have to remember that nobody is ever going to let on about how many missiles either side had in the cold war"
That was the whole point of the SALT treaties which seems to have evaded you. Thus, the USA had 41 strategic missile submarines, 1054 Minutemen ICBM's etc etc. The numbers were established so that both sides could agree to limits on their numbers. But that could only happen when the USSR had about the same firepower as the USA.
I haven't admitted anything. I have informed you, because you did not appear to know, that in 1962 the USSR had quite weak strategic nuclear forces. After Cuba they built them up until they matched the USA's. Your comment that during the Cold War the USSR only had a few nuclear missiles is just wrong, and you may as well admit it.
"You have to remember that nobody is ever going to let on about how many missiles either side had in the cold war"
That was the whole point of the SALT treaties which seems to have evaded you. Thus, the USA had 41 strategic missile submarines, 1054 Minutemen ICBM's etc etc. The numbers were established so that both sides could agree to limits on their numbers. But that could only happen when the USSR had about the same firepower as the USA.
Re: Thatcher speaks........twaddle as usual...
"You are blaming the recession of the early to mid-1980s on the Islamic revolution in Iran, that has to be the biggest and weakest excuse I have ever heard. We were quite well in with one Saddam Hussein in Iraq at the time and the Saudis so I don't think it really made a big difference. The Iranians did continue to sell their crude oil to the world."
You may have missed it, but oil went from $5 a barrel before the Yom Kippur War to $40 a barrel after the Islamic Revolution, putting the whole industrialised world in a severe recession.
"Only the most entrenched brainwashed Daily Express reader would call Arthur Scargill a revolutionary communist with treason in mind"
Sticks and stones. Scargill was a career revolutionary who used the NUM and Labour Party for his own ends. He started off as a Communist, and has now ditched Labour. At least give the man the courtesy of taking him seriously. If you don't think he was a revolutionary then you have to accept he was the most stupid and disastrous trade unionist in history. He turned a mighty union into nothing. Nice one Arthur.
"The Thatcher thing stuck to Moneyterist policies from 1979 to 1990, which resulted in unemployment, ruin and a boom period for the City types. "
If you are going to criticise monetarist economics at least have the decency to learn how to spell the term. Why don't you take the trouble to find out what is meant by the term rather than parrotting tired old agitprop cliches?
"Also the sell-off of public utilities was an utter scandal. By the 70s it must have been obvious to the government advisors responsible for the GP0 (phones as well as post) that mass use of mobile phones and the internet (which did exist in the 70s used by a tiny number of academics mainly) would one day be used by nearly everybody. "
It wasn't obvious to anyone at the time. That's the way free markets work, they evolve in ways central planners cannot imagine. That's why socialist economies always stagnate and fail.
"Instead they floated BT and gave away something which was publicly owned anyway so that speculators would have benefited. "
The government gave nothing away. Publicly owned businesses were sold off, and the government banked the money, and the billions in taxes it has since received from companies like BT and BA.
"With more government control mobile phone and internet access could well have been standardised and been available more cheaply even."
Sure, central government bureaucrats could have delivered mobile phones and the internet. Don't make me laugh, these duds fuck up every IT project they commission. Show me one state industry anywhere which successfully runs a mobile phone network. Under the good old GPO you couldn't own a phone, only hire one from them. It took at least six months to get connected. You couldn't get an itemised bill. The service was poor because no-one had a choice. If you wanted a phone you had to go to the GPO. That's why state monopolies are always rubbish. They have a captive market, so they have no incentive to innovate or improve the service.
You may have missed it, but oil went from $5 a barrel before the Yom Kippur War to $40 a barrel after the Islamic Revolution, putting the whole industrialised world in a severe recession.
"Only the most entrenched brainwashed Daily Express reader would call Arthur Scargill a revolutionary communist with treason in mind"
Sticks and stones. Scargill was a career revolutionary who used the NUM and Labour Party for his own ends. He started off as a Communist, and has now ditched Labour. At least give the man the courtesy of taking him seriously. If you don't think he was a revolutionary then you have to accept he was the most stupid and disastrous trade unionist in history. He turned a mighty union into nothing. Nice one Arthur.
"The Thatcher thing stuck to Moneyterist policies from 1979 to 1990, which resulted in unemployment, ruin and a boom period for the City types. "
If you are going to criticise monetarist economics at least have the decency to learn how to spell the term. Why don't you take the trouble to find out what is meant by the term rather than parrotting tired old agitprop cliches?
"Also the sell-off of public utilities was an utter scandal. By the 70s it must have been obvious to the government advisors responsible for the GP0 (phones as well as post) that mass use of mobile phones and the internet (which did exist in the 70s used by a tiny number of academics mainly) would one day be used by nearly everybody. "
It wasn't obvious to anyone at the time. That's the way free markets work, they evolve in ways central planners cannot imagine. That's why socialist economies always stagnate and fail.
"Instead they floated BT and gave away something which was publicly owned anyway so that speculators would have benefited. "
The government gave nothing away. Publicly owned businesses were sold off, and the government banked the money, and the billions in taxes it has since received from companies like BT and BA.
"With more government control mobile phone and internet access could well have been standardised and been available more cheaply even."
Sure, central government bureaucrats could have delivered mobile phones and the internet. Don't make me laugh, these duds fuck up every IT project they commission. Show me one state industry anywhere which successfully runs a mobile phone network. Under the good old GPO you couldn't own a phone, only hire one from them. It took at least six months to get connected. You couldn't get an itemised bill. The service was poor because no-one had a choice. If you wanted a phone you had to go to the GPO. That's why state monopolies are always rubbish. They have a captive market, so they have no incentive to innovate or improve the service.
Re: Thatcher speaks........twaddle as usual...
"Yes, has it ever crossed your mind that the SALT treaties, may have been a bit of positive PR for both sides, doesn't mean the numbers of war heads were particularly accurate"
Actually no it has not. The SALT Treaties (had you ever heard of them by the way) were rigorously policed by both sides. They were a major step towards halting the nuclear arms build up.
"Thank you for again conceding that the USSR nuclear missile capability was quite low and not matched to the USA's capability, in fact not until about 1970."
You said the USSR only ever had several dozen nuclear missiles. The key words are "only ever". You are clearly wrong, you may as well accept the fact.
Actually no it has not. The SALT Treaties (had you ever heard of them by the way) were rigorously policed by both sides. They were a major step towards halting the nuclear arms build up.
"Thank you for again conceding that the USSR nuclear missile capability was quite low and not matched to the USA's capability, in fact not until about 1970."
You said the USSR only ever had several dozen nuclear missiles. The key words are "only ever". You are clearly wrong, you may as well accept the fact.
Re: Thatcher speaks........twaddle as usual...
"I have to apologise for not remembering where I read about USSR nuclear missile capability being quite low, it wasn't a tabloid, it was a book about the cold war and the person quoted was an American analyst"
And as I said he would have been right up to the Cuban Missile Crisis. If you want to claim the USSR only ever had a few dozen missiles then you're wrong, there are no shades of grey about it, the subject is not open for discussion.
"I don't think you've really got hold of my point about the Cold War involving a lot of bluff, mutal flattery and the opportunity to save face if need be, for the leaders I mean."
That does not apply to the SALT Treaties, which were closely argued, legally binding documents. The numbers of missiles, bombers and warheads on both sides were agreed, together with limits and/or reductions. That's just a fact, however you may wish to spin it.
And as I said he would have been right up to the Cuban Missile Crisis. If you want to claim the USSR only ever had a few dozen missiles then you're wrong, there are no shades of grey about it, the subject is not open for discussion.
"I don't think you've really got hold of my point about the Cold War involving a lot of bluff, mutal flattery and the opportunity to save face if need be, for the leaders I mean."
That does not apply to the SALT Treaties, which were closely argued, legally binding documents. The numbers of missiles, bombers and warheads on both sides were agreed, together with limits and/or reductions. That's just a fact, however you may wish to spin it.