The Big Red One

[andy at handiwork]

Treat on the box tonight, Sam Fuller's 'The Big Red One' based on his WWII experiences with the Ist Infantry Division. Incidentally, during the whipped up moral panic about so called 'video-nasties' back in the 80s, UK customs confiscated copies of the video that were imported from the US. Some knuckle head of a customs officer thought it must be porn with a title like that.

[Alex L]

Sounds like a good tip, Have only just read a book about the battle for Huertgen Forest outside Aachen, which never really gets much of a mention, supposedly due to the high American casualties. It will be interesting to see if it features.

[Flat_Eric]

>>


Alex - I don't think that has anything to do with casualties at all.

The Battle of the Huergen Forest simply tends to get overshadowed by the much more famous Battle of the Bulge which commenced immediately after it and the Arnhem fiasco that took place shortly before it (there may even have been a bit of an overlap - I'd have to check the exact dates).

There's a movie called "When Trumpets Fade" (made in the late 90s) that deals with the Huertgen Forest battle. I saw it once on TV (some years ago) and while I don't remember the specifics of it too well, I recall thinking it wasn't a bad movie.

[andy at handiwork]

The Hurtgen has been described since, as the most ineptly fought series of battles of the war in the West. Lethargic and unimaginative command by Bradley and Hodges coupled with poor combat performance from soldiers who thought the war was nearly over, so why get killed now, allowed the Germans, who had been offered only unconditional surrender as a way to call a halt to the war, to inflict a severe battering on the Americans. The 1st Division, T B R O, had 4000 casualties for 4 miles of advance.

[muswell]

Great Movie! Loved it in the cinema and rediscovered it in the DVD version which is the Directors cut.Lee Marvin gives an understated performance which may owe something to his own wartime experiences, and Luke Skywalker aka Mark Hamill is good too.

[steve56]

Lee Marvins always good.

[Alex L]

Eric, Thanks, I will look out for the film which you mention.

[Alex L]

Andy, I hadn't heard of the battle until I came across the book, also did not know that Patton was held up at Metz for so many months!

As Eric mentions, it would seem that these battles were overshadowed by Market Garden and the German Ardennes offensive.

[stripeysydney]

Yes and from what I remember from some old history book, I think that Monty had to send troops to rescue him and the rest of the Yanks in that quarter, to which Monty crowed about for months afterwards.
Monty and Patton hated each other with a vengence.

[andy at handiwork]

Patton at Metz was the wrong general in the wrong place. Dashing and daring when on the chase across France after his breakout, helped by Monty pinning down the Germans at Caen, he was unsuited to what was more of a siege, loosing over 1000 men a day hammering away at fixed and well defended positions, comparable to losses on some of the worst days of the 1WW.

During the Battle of the Bulge, Eisenhower gave Monty command of a joint US-British force to the north of the battle, which M used with competence to close off the flank. It was after the Germans had retreated that Monty, never one to hide his light under a bushel, used a couple of press conferences to rub the Americans' faces in it, claiming that success was all his and that he had saved the day. It caused resentment that took a long time to heal.