The ultimate position of that are competing armies and police forces. Pay them high enough and they will protect you- but the others will then attack you!
Simple economics tells us that we need a tax rate high enough to pay for services that we need; but low enough to encourage hard work and saving. There are no easy answers- certainly not simplistic ones like 'CUT MY TAXES'.
Brown's 'Long-Term Vision'
Re: Brown's 'Long-Term Vision'
There's no wonder this country is heading for a fall when inflation is measured on the price of luxury goods bought on credit. The fact that the majority of people buying these big new telly's (and their new cars, sofa's, kitchens etc etc etc) will be buying them either on HP (the main source of commission for most salespersons now, more so than the items they are selling) or credit cards, meaning they can't actually afford to buy them as an actual cash purchase, will no doubt be lost on you.
Added to the fact that all new technology starts at a high price that decreases as growing demand causes mass production, and eventual obsoletion starting the pattern again - computers, hi-fi's, compact disc players, dvd players, satnav etc - and that this happened 20 years ago also under those Tory swines - means that using these values to measure inflation is downright dishonest.
Or should people just get everything on credit, from their bread & milk to their council tax, would that equate to a booming economy and a happy nouveau riche nation who have never had it so good?
Added to the fact that all new technology starts at a high price that decreases as growing demand causes mass production, and eventual obsoletion starting the pattern again - computers, hi-fi's, compact disc players, dvd players, satnav etc - and that this happened 20 years ago also under those Tory swines - means that using these values to measure inflation is downright dishonest.
Or should people just get everything on credit, from their bread & milk to their council tax, would that equate to a booming economy and a happy nouveau riche nation who have never had it so good?
They're locking them up today, they're throwing away the key...I wonder who it be tomorrow, you or me?
Re: Brown's 'Long-Term Vision'
Officer Dibble wrote:
> Liz, were you aware that Brown's mob (the cabinet) have never
> done an honest day's work in their life?
>
Alan Johnson worked for the Royal Mail
Ruth Kelly worked for the bank of england and was also economics writer on The Guardian newspaper
Geoff Hoon was a barrister
etc, etc, etc,.......
> Liz, were you aware that Brown's mob (the cabinet) have never
> done an honest day's work in their life?
>
Alan Johnson worked for the Royal Mail
Ruth Kelly worked for the bank of england and was also economics writer on The Guardian newspaper
Geoff Hoon was a barrister
etc, etc, etc,.......
Re: Brown's 'Long-Term Vision'
Re: energy prices.
As was widely documented, last year the price of gas & electricity increased dramatically in a short space of time. The subsequent recent reductions have not brought these prices down to the level they were at in 2005, far from it. Did the huge rises bring us inflation figures in line with that? No they did not. It is like suggesting that if petrol was retailing at, say, 92.9p a litre in February, and rises to 98.9p a litre in May, and then falls to 96.9p a litre in August we have then experienced a decrease in the cost of petrol.
And, as regards credit and prices of luxury goods, it is far from irrelevant in this thread - the unpalatable truth is the economy of the past 10 years has been propped up by the increasingly easy availabilty of credit - therefore the masses have been able to buy their plasma tv's, 'clean' new cars, furnish their houses... as this 'money' they are using to pay for these items that dictate the inflation figures doesn't exist in the present in 'real' terms, it is hardly an ethical measure of our economy, nor represents a realistic picture of what 'disposable' income the masses have. Yes, that may 'how' they measure 'inflation' but it doesn't make it real and it doesn't make it ethically right. And as these telly's aren't actually paid for in real terms, it hardly leaves the purchasers with the money they have 'saved' to buy bread and milk, it is simply another few quid added to their outgoings every month.
As was widely documented, last year the price of gas & electricity increased dramatically in a short space of time. The subsequent recent reductions have not brought these prices down to the level they were at in 2005, far from it. Did the huge rises bring us inflation figures in line with that? No they did not. It is like suggesting that if petrol was retailing at, say, 92.9p a litre in February, and rises to 98.9p a litre in May, and then falls to 96.9p a litre in August we have then experienced a decrease in the cost of petrol.
And, as regards credit and prices of luxury goods, it is far from irrelevant in this thread - the unpalatable truth is the economy of the past 10 years has been propped up by the increasingly easy availabilty of credit - therefore the masses have been able to buy their plasma tv's, 'clean' new cars, furnish their houses... as this 'money' they are using to pay for these items that dictate the inflation figures doesn't exist in the present in 'real' terms, it is hardly an ethical measure of our economy, nor represents a realistic picture of what 'disposable' income the masses have. Yes, that may 'how' they measure 'inflation' but it doesn't make it real and it doesn't make it ethically right. And as these telly's aren't actually paid for in real terms, it hardly leaves the purchasers with the money they have 'saved' to buy bread and milk, it is simply another few quid added to their outgoings every month.
They're locking them up today, they're throwing away the key...I wonder who it be tomorrow, you or me?
-
Officer Dibble
- Posts: 2372
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Brown's 'Long-Term Vision'
?I think Dibbler was trying to make a point that unless you are a horny-handed son of the working classes, you are incapable of making political decsions fairly.?
Well, something like that. Actually, I was trying to make the point that most of these Labour people are very middleclass career politicians who have no real experience, understanding, or affinity to industry, business, or commerce ? never mind the ordinary working bloke. They tend to sneer at business and the pursuit of profit ? even though it is the very same business and commerce that generates all the money that they happily fritter away on idiotic social programs in an attempt to salve their privileged middleclass consciences. They don?t seem to see the irony of feathering their own nests with pay raises, privileges and perks, while at the same time sneering at the concept of personal advancement and gain.
All classes of people are capable of making fair political decisions, except; I would suggest, for the self-deluded - high on their own moral certainty.
?It's just reverse snobbery?
It?s not snobbery of any type ? just the highlighting of greed, delusion and hypocrisy.
With reference to Alan Johnson: Yes, I?d forgot he used to be a postie. But hold on a minute. Look at this I found on the No.10 website.
?Alan Johnson was born in 1950 and was educated at Sloane Grammar School, Chelsea. He became a postman in 1968, and joined the Union of Communication Workers at the same time.?
?SLOANE?!!!? ?GRAMMER SCHOOL?!!!? ?CHELSEA?!!!?.. Ha! I can?t get my breath! Well, this throws a whole new light onto Alan?s protestation of proletarian affinity and solidarity, doesn?t it? What manner of ?postie? was Alan Johnson, eh? Was his postie van a regency red Jaguar estate? Was his uniform by Versace? Did he only deliver the odd letter to posh people in Kensington? Was he postie by appointment to the Sloanes? Well, there I was willing to believe he was the real deal ? a real working bloke. I?m gobsmaked (well, almost).
Officer Dibble
Well, something like that. Actually, I was trying to make the point that most of these Labour people are very middleclass career politicians who have no real experience, understanding, or affinity to industry, business, or commerce ? never mind the ordinary working bloke. They tend to sneer at business and the pursuit of profit ? even though it is the very same business and commerce that generates all the money that they happily fritter away on idiotic social programs in an attempt to salve their privileged middleclass consciences. They don?t seem to see the irony of feathering their own nests with pay raises, privileges and perks, while at the same time sneering at the concept of personal advancement and gain.
All classes of people are capable of making fair political decisions, except; I would suggest, for the self-deluded - high on their own moral certainty.
?It's just reverse snobbery?
It?s not snobbery of any type ? just the highlighting of greed, delusion and hypocrisy.
With reference to Alan Johnson: Yes, I?d forgot he used to be a postie. But hold on a minute. Look at this I found on the No.10 website.
?Alan Johnson was born in 1950 and was educated at Sloane Grammar School, Chelsea. He became a postman in 1968, and joined the Union of Communication Workers at the same time.?
?SLOANE?!!!? ?GRAMMER SCHOOL?!!!? ?CHELSEA?!!!?.. Ha! I can?t get my breath! Well, this throws a whole new light onto Alan?s protestation of proletarian affinity and solidarity, doesn?t it? What manner of ?postie? was Alan Johnson, eh? Was his postie van a regency red Jaguar estate? Was his uniform by Versace? Did he only deliver the odd letter to posh people in Kensington? Was he postie by appointment to the Sloanes? Well, there I was willing to believe he was the real deal ? a real working bloke. I?m gobsmaked (well, almost).
Officer Dibble
Re: Brown's 'Long-Term Vision'
dynatech wrote:
>>(snipped for brevity)
dynatech - nice counter to the Wazza NuLab spin machine there, Old Son.
Here's a link that I came across on another forum that further shoots down in flames claims that inflation is falling and disposable income rising (The Times - NOT the Daily Mail).
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/b ... 610641.ece
Especially relevant are the bits about consumers' spending money being at its lowest in 10 years and the cost of essential (i.e. not plasma tellies!) household goods increasing by 42 per cent. Very telling.
If there's one thing that Labour are very good it, it's massaging the figures to create the illusion of a "robust economy". Well - they appear to have fooled Wazza anyway !laugh!.
- Eric
>>(snipped for brevity)
dynatech - nice counter to the Wazza NuLab spin machine there, Old Son.
Here's a link that I came across on another forum that further shoots down in flames claims that inflation is falling and disposable income rising (The Times - NOT the Daily Mail).
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/b ... 610641.ece
Especially relevant are the bits about consumers' spending money being at its lowest in 10 years and the cost of essential (i.e. not plasma tellies!) household goods increasing by 42 per cent. Very telling.
If there's one thing that Labour are very good it, it's massaging the figures to create the illusion of a "robust economy". Well - they appear to have fooled Wazza anyway !laugh!.
- Eric
Re: Brown's 'Long-Term Vision'
Sorry - clickable link for above:
- Eric
- Eric
Re: Brown's 'Long-Term Vision'
Flat_Eric wrote:
>
> dynatech - nice counter to the Wazza NuLab spin machine there,
> Old Son.
>
This must be Flat Eric's Tory Trolling on that logic, then.
>
> dynatech - nice counter to the Wazza NuLab spin machine there,
> Old Son.
>
This must be Flat Eric's Tory Trolling on that logic, then.