FAO: Sam, Well, Mr Slater.........

[fudgeflaps]

You have outlined a lot about the God Delusion etc, and spiritual, religous beliefs. The human condition, the mind, is a puzzler to us all........

.....you haven't really outlined your own beliefs, though!!!

Care to share?

Cold hard fact and science over spiritual belief? Destiny vs good ol' human endeavour? A yin-yang balancing act? The antidepressant drugs companies, or good old herbs?

You know you are good at these questions!! !wink!

[Sam Slater]

[quote]Care to share?[/quote]

What, my beliefs? Well, it has to be in the human condition doesn't it? We have to believe in eachother -and we do everyday- to get by. We're highly evolved, social animals, belonging to the ape family of the class mammalia. We are not only conscious of our surroundings, but also of ourselves within those surroundings, and our standing within a social group. We can memorise the past, and imagine our future, and so we strive for that imagined future - whatever that may be.

Because we are social animals, we're genetically programmed to get along, yet have a strong sense of self worth, and desire which contradicts with helping others. I bet there are many people you dislike, or even hate, but you would still risk your own safety in helping them if you came across them being mugged in a back alley. An old friend of mine spends his life, with his wife, in fostering disabled children, and yet loves nothing more on a weekend but to pulverise some poor cunt who happens to support the wrong football team. How can he be so gentle and thoughtful, yet so brutish at the same time? It's because we are those evolved apes -though 'evolved' is a bad term to use because it gives a sense of completion, and we are definitely not, nor ever will be, completely evolved- that we can be so thuggish and kind, all at once, and why we fear the unknown, or believe in silly things.

So there's your answer really. I believe in humans, and we have to take the bad with the good, and just hope the good is enough to keep us progressing into the future. Solidarity, kindness, and knowledge are all important, but understanding those three, plus our weaknesses can only improve the species, and future generations, no?

I think a belief in a universal God is not only highly improbable, but very unhelpful in our quest for understanding.

Imagine what some people might achieve with their lives if they weren't waiting round for something better, like an afterlife? I believe that life is as good as it gets. Out of the many eggs your mother produced in her ovaries, and all the sperm your daddy wasted, and you'll realise that your birth was akin to winning the lottery jackpot 10 times in a row, and then your parents births were also '10 successive jackpot wins', and then your grandparents, and so on. Just for you to be here today, EVERY parent, grandparent, great grandparent, and previous generation for 3.5 BILLION years had to have successfully succeeded in winning 10 successive jackpots, just to be born, then had to survive natural disasters, famines, disease, being eaten by others, being killed by competitors, and finding a mate to pass on their genes. All your ancestors had to survive the evolving from one species to another, successfully! We can hardly imagine how lucky we are, just to be born, and yet we want an afterlife as well?!

I think it was Richard Dawkins who worked it out that for every person born, there are more people that were never born, than there are grains of sand in the Sahara Desert. So there's at least 6 billion Sahara Desertsworth of sand grains to imagine the amount of people that never made it.

God - my arse.

[Deuce Bigolo]

best summed up by this

Humanism features an optimistic attitude about the capacity of people, but it does not involve believing that human nature is purely good or that each and every person is capable of living up to the Humanist ideals of rationality and morality. If anything, there is the recognition that living up to one's potential is hard work and requires the help of others. The ultimate goal is human flourishing; making life better for all humans. The focus is on doing good and living well in the here and now, and leaving the world better for those who come after, not on suffering through life to be rewarded afterward

[Sam Slater]

Maybe I fall within that catagory, but I prefer not to align myself with one group or another, or to be 'tagged' in any way. It just seems like I'd be denying one religion for another! !laugh!

[Deuce Bigolo]

LOL

I know what you mean

Pidgeon holing is too simple and genrally used to attack people

You can have ethics & morals and not be religious but that doesn't make you an atheist