Lessons still need to be learned

[Pervert]

I recall giving an opinion about the England team after they were put out of the last World Cup (which we didn't qualify for, I concede). The intention was to be constructive in the criticism and suggest areas they could improve.

And here we are again, and nothing's changed.

Again, I'll say it: the other home countries would bite your arm off if offered a Rooney, Gerrard or Beckham to play in our side. You guys have some excellent, world-class, players---but they seldom work as a team, and more often than not they lack passion in their play.

Scotland were gutless away against Ukraine and Georgia, but mostly there is a buzz about them---more like a club side than an international one. The Northern Irish have been punching above their weight in this tournament and deserve a great deal of credit.

In spite of being given a Get Out Of Jail Free card on Saturday, with Russia losing in Israel, England's starting eleven tonight didn't seem interested in rising to the occasion. A point was all they needed, but even that didn't get them going until they were 2-0 down. An early Christmas present of a penalty got them back in, and then Crouch scored a belter. And then they just lapsed back into the earlier mentality.

Is it the coach, the team captain, or the players responsible for this lack of spirit? I don't know, but the lack is there---and it cost the FA about ?10 million due to not qualifying.

You need a manager willing to kick arses to motivate. That's not McClaren and, sorry Sam, it's not Hoddle. The late, great Brian Clough should have been appointed England boss in the late 1970s or early 1980s. Alex Ferguson has the personality to do the job, but wouldn't be interested. I'm not sure there's any other home-grown manager up to it.

Anyway, this isn't a gloat. Just an analysis. Moore, Charlton, Banks all played with passion. Why can't Gerrard, Lampard and co?

[diplodocus]

ok as a massive footy fan who has just lost his summer holiday (anyone want to take on a camper van) i'm gonna babble a little

Steve Mc was never the right coach, that was obvious from the start, he had the same players as Sven and did nothing more with them even when he had some better players to move into positions like Richards for Neville

He was never able to understand tactics for the right game in the right place, wrong formation in Croatia, awful at home vs Macedonia, never should have played Lescott at left back vs Russia and how you can promote the third choice keeper over the second (James) when James has possibly been the best keeper in the league is bizarre

he has to go, we need a tactical coach, not a coach that can tell people how to play which is what S Mc was, the players we have already know that, they need to know tactics

I can't see any English that can do this, so i'd go for Jose or McNeill

sorry for the ramble but my summer is fucked and i'm pissed off

[Sam Slater]

But how many England players are footballers before athletes? Look at the Argentina & Spanish players. Footballers first, athletes second.

You dismiss Hoddle, but what other English/British manager is there? Please don't say O'Neil. He did 'ok' with Leicester, and anyone can win with Celtic or Rangers up in Scotland (Strachan wasn't all that with Southampton in the Prem).

Allardyce won't play the football that will get people excited, and nor will Mourinho, but Hoddle will.

Mind you:

--------------------James--------------------
Neville-----Ferdinand-----Terry-----Cole
Lennon----Gerrard----Hargreaves---Cole
------------Owen-----Rooney--------------

Only two played out of a probable first team. It proves that what we have for back-up (esp defence) isn't good enough.

[Pervert]

O'Neill isn't the man for the job, nor is Allardice or Quasimodo (sorry, Rednapp).

Playing 4-5-1 at home might be sensible if you're Scotland facing Italy---but England?

You're right about the defence, and right about James (but that's a hindsight call, and Carson has been in good form all season). If you could keep the press off his back, the guy you wanted after the last World Cup (the Portuguese chappy) might be the best bet.

[Sam Slater]

Scolari? He doesn't speak English does he? I like Wenger, but I doubt he'd leave Arsenal now they're doing so well.

As for Carson v James: I don't blame McLaren picking him. Dropping Beckham was a bad idea. He's contributed about 5 assists in 5 games since coming back, and he wouldn't have gone to America if he thought his international career was still alive, and would still be playing for Real Madrid, and fit.

McLaren thought he was being big in dropping a big name, and then had to go crawling back when England were in 5th place in the group. that draw at Wembley against Estonia has really come back to bite us in the arse hasn't it? Even with losses in Russia, and last nights loss, we'd be through.

Anyway, footballers first, athletes second. Until we get that right with our youth, we'll always have players that have no first touch, can't work as a team, nor keep the ball.

[diplodocus]

I cannot see Neville replacing Richards now, especially if Beckham doesn't play
Sol is a pretty good second to that defence and Lescott as a third along an experienced player

can't agree with Lennon over either Phillips (not my first choice but didn't play bad tonite) or Bentley - a better crosser than either IMO

the others can stand up for themselves if form is ok, then you have good next in line (Lamps, Barry etc)

no one can argue with the front

jeez hope it works for Africa, don't want to waste any more cash lol

[Deuce Bigolo]

I'd sum it all up by saying they lost to the 2 qualifiers in their last 2 games

Simply not good enough

Couple that with some awful results earlier in the campaign(see link above)

Used to be a time when scoring against an English side was a rarity but thesedays they seem leakier than the titanic

[Sam Slater]

Richards has been awful for the last 3 England games. He's allover the place! Of course he's big, strong and pacy, so people ignore the fact that he 's no first touch, has suicidal positioning, and can't pass.

G Neville has everything a right back needs apart from Richards' pace.

[Deuce Bigolo]

But Gary Neville isn't getting any younger or taller for that matter

[Sam Slater]

True, but he's a better right back than Richards. I would probably have played Brown in last nights game. Knows the position, overlaps well, is better positionally, and a better passer/1st touch.

Wes Brown will almost definately play right back for Man Utd in the Champions League this season, but apparently he isn't good enough for England against Croatia?

Englands defence didn't have ONE regular starter, and only the aging Sol had any experience, in such an important game. Brown should have started, as should Beckham, playing with 2 strikers.