Serious 'Ishoos'

[Flat_Eric]

Barcode wrote:

<<<The prejudice expressed in this instance is a class prejudice about what middle class people think or not think. Still plenty of prejudice about....<<<


Seems to me Barcode that you're falling into the common trap of thinking that it's only white middle-class folk (and white males in particular) who are capable of "prejudice".

And / or that any prejudice on the part of blacks, Asians, Indians, Muslims, women, gays etc. is somehow more 'understandable' and therefore more 'acceptable'.

- Eric

[Flat_Eric]

colonel wrote:

>>


Maybe, but that's hardly setting the world on fire is it colonel - coming second in a council by-election somewhere in the depths of Warwickshire?!

Anyway as I said above, "the odd local councillor notwithstanding ...."

They'll always have a small hardcore following, they may attract a few new misguided converts from time to time and they'll probably make the odd headline or two on occasion. But I don't think there's any real danger of the BNP becoming any sort of serious political force in the UK.

- Eric

[Officer Dibble]

Saying that I'm contemptuous of trendy middleclass lefties is fair comment. But given that I'm an observant, well-read, rational, even-handed sort of person (which almost all of my sparring partners give me credit for) how do you come to the conclusion that I'm "ignorant" and "prejudiced"? Is that simply your default position on anyone who holds a different opinion to you? Are you saying that my observations and fears about the trendy liberal elite are irrational and unreasonable? What evidence do you have to support this view? Is it not perhaps ironic that when a poor working class lad like myself has the temerity to offer opinions that are at odds with the white middleclass consensus you denounce him as "ignorant"? Do my ignorant proletarian views confirm your 'prejudices' about poor working class people I wonder?






Officer Dibble







Officius Dibblus est amplus amor deus

[Sam Slater]

Well said.

[vp002]

hear hear barcode !

Dibbles a well balanced man ......a chip on both shoulders!!!!

[Officer Dibble]

Thank you for that well considered response, Barcode. You conceded that there is merit in some aspects of my views - the hallmark of a rational man. You have just gone up quite considerably in my estimation.

Regarding me "generalizing". Yes, of course I do, we all do. It would make debate nigh on impossible - if, for instance, I had to say "the middle classes - excluding of course, Jeremy Clarkson, Jeffery Archer, Melanie Phillips, Peter Hitchens, etc, etc" every time I mentioned them. I just take it that everyone understands I'm talking about, what I perceive to be, the opinions, views, and mores of the middleclass majority, not every single person within that social strata.

I too like to think I have open tolerant views about race, class, and sexual orientation (I have friends of colour and my next-door neighbor is gay). But being rational and even handed means you also have to criticize certain social groups when it appears necessary. No one can be wonderful, blameless and virtuous all the time, so sooner or later some criticism will be inevitable. Unfortunately, there is a hysterical tendency amongst many middleclass trendies to cry ?Racist!? ?Prejudice!? ?Fascist!? or whatever, whenever anyone dares to point out uncomfortable facts or challenge the views they have adopted. My antipathy to these trendies is not based on the fact that they choose to hold a different opinion, but on the fact that they are not the ?kind, caring, sharing? people that would have us believe. My experience on these forums and in the wider media over the years has been that many middleclass people who espouse socialism turn out to be the most arrogant, contemptuous, and spiteful people you could ever hope to avoid. Their caring sharing stance is just a self-delusional sham. A fashion statement. Something they have to espouse if they are going to be accepted within their peer group and the middleclass at large. Imagine going to a dinner party in Islington and saying, ?I?m not to keen on those darkies ? I reckon we should send ?em back!? That would curdle the Camembert and blight the Beaujolais wouldn?t it? You just couldn?t do it, could you? You would become Persona non grata. As the, oh so posh, Virginia Wolfe once said. ?Darling, one simply has to be a socialist if one is going to be invited to all the best dinner parties?.


?I don't have a problem with your being working class?

And neither do I with anyone else being middleclass. It?s simply the earnest socialist pretensions, the self imbued moral superiority and the almost open contempt for the views of the white working class that makes me rip my hair out. On the other hand I love their penchant for culture, education, good food and manners. And of course public school boy, Jeremy Clarkson, is a top dude, the quintessential ?Chap? of our time.

Issues of decency, evenhandedness, and respect (where warranted) towards others are important considerations. But also pragmatism, and facing up to the reality that the world can never be ?perfect?. For it is the inequality, the ups, downs, and tipping of the scales that drive the whole of creation forward.






Officer Dibble







Officius Dibblus est amplus amor deus