The unions and "militant" fucked it up.

[Arch Stanton]

The trade unions in the 70s and "Militant" in the 80s triggered a huge amount of damage. As a reaction we got 18 years of Thatcherism followed by Thatcher clone Tony Blair.

If only the trade unions and Militant had shown more restraint and Barbara Castle's "In Place of Strife" ws allowed to work.

This is some of the damage Thatcherism caused:
1/The deluded idea that home ownership is intrinsically a good thing.
2/Negative equity
3/The sale of council houses thus reducing social housing stock. Incidentally the proceeds went to the Treasury.
4/The lifting of curbs on loand ans credit leading to the credit card culture.
5/The "me, me , me" and "loadsamoney culture where greed was widely encourged.
6/Winding down of NHS dentistry
7/ The poll tax
8/ Privatisation of British Rail
etc etc

Incidentally if it wasnt for the Falklands War just before the 1982 General election, the Tories would have lost that election.

[Mike_CFC]

Yep,the only right thing Thatcher did was save the Falklands sheepshaggers from a caning off the Argies.Wow wee.

Still,did'nt compensate for killing the British motor industry,the dockers as well as the miners and steelworkers,among other British commodities,putting millions of so called fellow countrymen out of jobs,facing destitution and ruining many families.

Yep Maggie,greed certainly is good !whistle!.

The irony is that she's very close to croaking and the institution she once tried dislolving,but still managed to ruin, is keeping her alive.

HEARTLESS BITCH!!!!

[Arch Stanton]

Yes Thatcher fucked it up big time but my point is that the Tories wouldnt have got into office if the unions (with "The Winter of Discontent" etc) didnt give the Labour government hard time in the 1970s. It was a form of collective madness to do this. I am sure, looking at it rationally, the last thing the unions would have wanted was 18 years plus of Thatcherism.

[Mike_CFC]

Was'nt it 12 years of Thatcherism-1979-1991?

Anyways.I guess the millitants and unions lost trust in the old Labour Party.afterall,protecting their workers was their only focus.

Management did'nt help either with their dycensium (sp?) rules.It's still happening in today's modern industries,difference is most unions nowadays,except Unison,GMB,RMT and FBU all lack clout and most take backhanders from corparate firms that employ their workers.

Socialist Labour died with John Smith as New Labour totally betrays the working class and finds everything the working class stands for as abhorant

We should of seen it coming.

[Pervert]

John Smith was the father of new Labour; Brown and Blair didn't stand for the leadership when Kinnock stood down in order to give Smith a clear run. All three had similar agendas.

One of the reasons Labour lost in 1992---perhaps the reason, after the embarrassingly awful Sheffield rally---was shadow Chancellor Smith's economic plans. We never got to judge him because of his death, but it's a fair bet he'd have come in for the same sort of abuse that Tony and Gordon have.

[Mike_CFC]

But we've lost our Labour Party for good.

I don't want to be mega rich
I don't want to own my own home,just yet
I don't want credit cards or loans etc

Call me a typical working class geezer.But what's so wrong in wanting to earn your money and a decent pension to show for one's hard work without being kicked in the bollocks by politicians that simply don't give a fuck about us?.

What's so wrong in wanting to be normal?

[Pervert]

Smith, Blair and Brown decided that if Labour was ever to be elected again, it would need to be trusted on the economy. While the party was doing thatm the Tories were out in the cold. The trouble is that there's little to choose between the parties now, except that the Tories will still make giving the ultra-rich tax breaks their first priority.

The Labour Party of my youth is long gone. On the good side, it means that the country is no longer being dictated to by a small group of union leaders. On the down side, a lot of the values of fairness and social structure have gone.

We can't blame the unions or Militant for all our woes, any more than we can Thatcher and the financial speculators. If we don't work, we cannot complain about those who do

In my youth, I spent a number of months out of work, and it was the most depressing time of my life. I cannot understand those for whom the benefits culture is a way of life---not the ones who are unable to work, but those who choose not to. The people who expect something for nothing (and I'm including those in work who let others carry them, rather than do what they're being paid for) are fleas sucking on a healthy body. They have no conscience about this, so it's pointless expecting to shame them into work.

A fair society would involve all those capable of working doing so, and receiving a good pension when they retire. Doesn't look like any of that will be happening any time soon.

[Mike_CFC]

Oh i do work,like yourself.

I can understand and do sympathise with those that can't work,or can no longer work.They do deserve benefits.

It's the workshy that i have a problem with.But we have to support them,or else they would bring violence and hostility to the streets of Britain,so we would be creating one problem after another.

And as you said,there is no point forcing them to work,when they're simply not interested.

I guess we're caught between a rock and a hardplace.

[Pervert]

I didn't say they shouldn't be forced to work, just think it's pointless trying to shame them into doing it themselves.

[colonel]

I've mentioned before on here that Thatcher is supposed to have said to Frank Field that she thought Thatcherism would make people more altruistic- and was upset when people just spent their money on themselves- and sneered at those whose money they had taken.

I am quite happy to separate Thatcher from Thatcherism...but the fact is that we all thought that Thatcherism was a fast-acting poison. It has turned out to be a slow-acting poison- breaking us all right now.

One area of Manchester has had 50 armed bank raids in the last 12 months. This week's raid ended up being foiled by two drivers, who drove into the robbers, and one old dear who threw her brolly at one of them.

This is what we have become.