He obviously does. See barcode's response below.
Mart
Four more years.....
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Sam Slater
- Posts: 11624
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Four more years.....
[quote]there are many shades of Islam across very many cultures so it's probably not accurate to stereotype people quite the way you do[/quote]
Stereotyping? I started by clearly describing 'I'm not one bit convinced about the deaths of civilians in the Iraq war being justifiedI'm not one bit convinced about the deaths of civilians in the Iraq war being justified' apart from general 'Muslims. Check again.
[quote]and I still think that people get into terrorism not so much because there are 72 virgins on offer, but because something was done to their community.[/quote]
Nah. Don't buy it. If they were Palestinian, maybe. But as I've already pointed out, most are very well off, middle-class Muslims that are persuaded into martyrdom. So the London bombers that were born in Leeds only bombed because they were oppressed, living in poverty due to US policies, or had something done to their community? Your viewpoint doesn't make sense of reality.
[quote]I think the biggest factor for them is the USA's support of Israel and the contempt the Zionists have for any other people except their own,[/quote]
Not too impressed with right-wing Christendom, or Zionism either. There are faults on all sides, although none are as bad as the biggest death cult on the block - Islam.
[quote]I'm not one bit convinced about the deaths of civilians in the Iraq war being justified because it was a rescue mission,[/quote]
Justification isn't something I was trying to put across. It was the dumb idea that these deaths were equel to purposeful murder of civilians.
[quote]The USA and friends were never invited into Iraq by an opposition party[/quote]
The Kurds.
[quote]the USA and friends should have done it back in 1990 or better still, not backed the bastard in the first place....lol...[/quote]
I agree. 1990 was the ideal time. That just goes to show what respecting the UN did for the world. As for backing Saddam: it was needed, politically to have a strong Iraq to stop Islamic extremism from Iran, and the old Soviet Union to the north from controlling oil. We wouldn't have won the cold war otherwise. Saddam was the lesser of the 3 evils back then and we had to back him for our own, and the worlds interests. Would you have preferred communism and dictatorship over freedom and democracy? Heavily armed India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, and Turkey are direct results of halting Communism. We're paying the concequences of that now, but could you see another choice? Could the powers that be have foretold future events?
Stereotyping? I started by clearly describing 'I'm not one bit convinced about the deaths of civilians in the Iraq war being justifiedI'm not one bit convinced about the deaths of civilians in the Iraq war being justified' apart from general 'Muslims. Check again.
[quote]and I still think that people get into terrorism not so much because there are 72 virgins on offer, but because something was done to their community.[/quote]
Nah. Don't buy it. If they were Palestinian, maybe. But as I've already pointed out, most are very well off, middle-class Muslims that are persuaded into martyrdom. So the London bombers that were born in Leeds only bombed because they were oppressed, living in poverty due to US policies, or had something done to their community? Your viewpoint doesn't make sense of reality.
[quote]I think the biggest factor for them is the USA's support of Israel and the contempt the Zionists have for any other people except their own,[/quote]
Not too impressed with right-wing Christendom, or Zionism either. There are faults on all sides, although none are as bad as the biggest death cult on the block - Islam.
[quote]I'm not one bit convinced about the deaths of civilians in the Iraq war being justified because it was a rescue mission,[/quote]
Justification isn't something I was trying to put across. It was the dumb idea that these deaths were equel to purposeful murder of civilians.
[quote]The USA and friends were never invited into Iraq by an opposition party[/quote]
The Kurds.
[quote]the USA and friends should have done it back in 1990 or better still, not backed the bastard in the first place....lol...[/quote]
I agree. 1990 was the ideal time. That just goes to show what respecting the UN did for the world. As for backing Saddam: it was needed, politically to have a strong Iraq to stop Islamic extremism from Iran, and the old Soviet Union to the north from controlling oil. We wouldn't have won the cold war otherwise. Saddam was the lesser of the 3 evils back then and we had to back him for our own, and the worlds interests. Would you have preferred communism and dictatorship over freedom and democracy? Heavily armed India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, and Turkey are direct results of halting Communism. We're paying the concequences of that now, but could you see another choice? Could the powers that be have foretold future events?
[i]I used to spend a lot of time criticizing Islam on here in the noughties - but things are much better now.[/i]
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Sam Slater
- Posts: 11624
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Four more years.....
[quote]I don't think you know a lot about Muslim culture and the whole 72 virgins idea really is stereotyping people a bit.
I think what you might be trying to say is that terrorism is intrinsic to Islam and that they have no reason to get into terrorism other than because of their religion and religious training.[/quote]
Lived in the middle of a Muslim community since 1983. Went to schools that were 60-80% Muslim. I've fasted to support my Muslim friends as a kid and been to numerous Muslim weddings and Ede parties. I know enough. I know that the Quran and Hadith a little and learnt a little Arabic as a kid (as well as a little Urdu). Not enough to get me by, sadly. I'd have loved to have learnt more.
Onto 72 virgins: Hamas activist Muhammad Abu Wardeh admitted that he promised would-be martyrs this very thing as incentives to murder. That said, 72 virgins is a mistranslation from ancient Syriac and should read 'white raisins'. Read this article which explains more.
[quote]I don't recall the USA being invited to invade Iraq by the Kurds, find a reference of one of their leaders saying that and I'll buy the idea.[/quote]
Read this article from 2003 where a few Kurds were interviewed on Al-Jazeera. Quote: "The anti-Saddam Kurd was for the war, of course, just like his leaders are. Kurdistan is the wrong place to be reporting from if you’re against the war."
[quote]Nobody 'won' the cold war, it was negative, dangerous and a waste of resources and opportunities ever since 1945.[/quote]
The Communists goal was to introduce Communism to the world. We didn't want that. We got our wishes so we won. Easy.
[quote]I'm afraid I drew you out slightly by saying we should have invaded Iraq in 1990, the solution was of course to install a democracy in Iraq back in 1979 rather than back a dictator and I won't go on and on about who backed him....lol[/quote]
Drew me out? Not really. I've stated many times on this forum that I wanted the job finishing in 1990. Sorry to piss on your fire but I drew myself out with that a looong time ago.
Installing a democracy in 79 may have been an option, which is easy to criticize nearly 30 years after the event. It doesn't mean Islam can use any excuse in the book to murder people in the free world.
I think what you might be trying to say is that terrorism is intrinsic to Islam and that they have no reason to get into terrorism other than because of their religion and religious training.[/quote]
Lived in the middle of a Muslim community since 1983. Went to schools that were 60-80% Muslim. I've fasted to support my Muslim friends as a kid and been to numerous Muslim weddings and Ede parties. I know enough. I know that the Quran and Hadith a little and learnt a little Arabic as a kid (as well as a little Urdu). Not enough to get me by, sadly. I'd have loved to have learnt more.
Onto 72 virgins: Hamas activist Muhammad Abu Wardeh admitted that he promised would-be martyrs this very thing as incentives to murder. That said, 72 virgins is a mistranslation from ancient Syriac and should read 'white raisins'. Read this article which explains more.
[quote]I don't recall the USA being invited to invade Iraq by the Kurds, find a reference of one of their leaders saying that and I'll buy the idea.[/quote]
Read this article from 2003 where a few Kurds were interviewed on Al-Jazeera. Quote: "The anti-Saddam Kurd was for the war, of course, just like his leaders are. Kurdistan is the wrong place to be reporting from if you’re against the war."
[quote]Nobody 'won' the cold war, it was negative, dangerous and a waste of resources and opportunities ever since 1945.[/quote]
The Communists goal was to introduce Communism to the world. We didn't want that. We got our wishes so we won. Easy.
[quote]I'm afraid I drew you out slightly by saying we should have invaded Iraq in 1990, the solution was of course to install a democracy in Iraq back in 1979 rather than back a dictator and I won't go on and on about who backed him....lol[/quote]
Drew me out? Not really. I've stated many times on this forum that I wanted the job finishing in 1990. Sorry to piss on your fire but I drew myself out with that a looong time ago.
Installing a democracy in 79 may have been an option, which is easy to criticize nearly 30 years after the event. It doesn't mean Islam can use any excuse in the book to murder people in the free world.
[i]I used to spend a lot of time criticizing Islam on here in the noughties - but things are much better now.[/i]
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Deuce Bigolo
- Posts: 9910
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Four more years.....
The candidates are pretty much in 2 camps
The Washingston DC insiders....not much will change under these 2
Mc Cain...another ex-military puppet for the neo-conservative war mongerers to pursue their pre-emptive strike policies
pro-war anti-abortion doddering old fool in reality
Hilary Clinton...will say & do anything to become President... born liar
The Washington DC outsider
Barack Obama...is telling the people what they want to hear
ie will take on the big end of town...anti-war...only time will tell if he's substance or froth & bubble
The only difference between Republicans & Democrats is Republicans start wars Democrats dont...in recent history(30 years) anyway
The Washingston DC insiders....not much will change under these 2
Mc Cain...another ex-military puppet for the neo-conservative war mongerers to pursue their pre-emptive strike policies
pro-war anti-abortion doddering old fool in reality
Hilary Clinton...will say & do anything to become President... born liar
The Washington DC outsider
Barack Obama...is telling the people what they want to hear
ie will take on the big end of town...anti-war...only time will tell if he's substance or froth & bubble
The only difference between Republicans & Democrats is Republicans start wars Democrats dont...in recent history(30 years) anyway
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Sam Slater
- Posts: 11624
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Four more years.....
[quoteThe only difference between Republicans & Democrats is Republicans start wars Democrats dont...[/quote]
Bosnia?
Bosnia?
[i]I used to spend a lot of time criticizing Islam on here in the noughties - but things are much better now.[/i]