IT's old hat that porn, as an institution, has become less and less frowned upon over the years, but here's an interesting question - has it (will it ever) become socially acceptable to be a porn star?
Obviously the days have passed, if they were ever with us, when women (or men) only went into the industry out of desperation. More and more people from different backgrounds are doing it because, well, they want to. And that's fantastic - obviously the deterrents to a career in porn, chiefly the fear social rejection, are lessening. Being a porn performer is now something you could admit to your friends. But is it something you could openly mention at a party? Or put on a credit card application form? Have we really reached the stage where a porn star can 'admit to' their career in wider company, without attracting stigmatisation?
Is porn now just another career choice, like being a bank manager? I recently saw porn described as 'just another way to pay the bills before grad school', like working in telesales. Is it something one could mention in a job interview, or an interview for a university course, as part of one's past resume? Or is it still something you have to hide?
Come to think of it, do we WANT being a porn star to be no more illicit that being a car salesman?
Would be particularly interested to see what any of the performers who frequent this forum think...
Social acceptability of porn: a Rimbaud rumination
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Matt
Re: Social acceptability of porn: a Rimbaud rumina
Not working in the industry, I'm unable to comment on how easy it may be to openly 'admit' to your profession, but I'll throw in my two-cents worth regardless.
I certainly agree that it is becoming less of a social taboo to work in the sex industry. I'd imagine it largely depends on who you are revealing such information to, and your own personal morality (I'd imagine there are still some who do such work though if given a choice of any career would prefer something else, thus would choose their past work history selectively so increasing their chances of doing what they prefer).
I've been amazed in Australia how open things appear to be. Sex shops I have seen have open displays in windows much like department stores (excpet the manaquins are made of rubber etc) - there have been adverts on the radio for 'marital aids' and the Sexpo festival has attracted nearly 70,000 people (in one state!) Buttsie will be able to put all this in context, but I'm surprised at how open things seem to be.
In the UK, I'd say attitudes are slowly but surely changing which is a good thing. I guess the next stage we will reach is not 'let's make porn more acceptable' but 'now porn is more acceptable, how accessible do we want it to be?' I do see the need to protect those who have not consented to see explicit material from doing so, though I don't see why that should seriously limit those who enjoy such material.
I've often thought that as older more strictly traditional generations gradually pass on, younger more liberally minded folk, not directly touched by major war and the sense of community morals that brings, will gradually allow for more social acceptability in things that so far have been frowned upon. I don't know if that theory holds and weight but I like where things are going on this one. I only wish they would get there faster!
I certainly agree that it is becoming less of a social taboo to work in the sex industry. I'd imagine it largely depends on who you are revealing such information to, and your own personal morality (I'd imagine there are still some who do such work though if given a choice of any career would prefer something else, thus would choose their past work history selectively so increasing their chances of doing what they prefer).
I've been amazed in Australia how open things appear to be. Sex shops I have seen have open displays in windows much like department stores (excpet the manaquins are made of rubber etc) - there have been adverts on the radio for 'marital aids' and the Sexpo festival has attracted nearly 70,000 people (in one state!) Buttsie will be able to put all this in context, but I'm surprised at how open things seem to be.
In the UK, I'd say attitudes are slowly but surely changing which is a good thing. I guess the next stage we will reach is not 'let's make porn more acceptable' but 'now porn is more acceptable, how accessible do we want it to be?' I do see the need to protect those who have not consented to see explicit material from doing so, though I don't see why that should seriously limit those who enjoy such material.
I've often thought that as older more strictly traditional generations gradually pass on, younger more liberally minded folk, not directly touched by major war and the sense of community morals that brings, will gradually allow for more social acceptability in things that so far have been frowned upon. I don't know if that theory holds and weight but I like where things are going on this one. I only wish they would get there faster!
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Wrob
Re: Social acceptability of porn: a Rimbaud rumina
Couldn't help but muse that in the States this acceptability has already started to happen. I noticed both Front and Bizarre magazine this month featured Tera Patrick as their cover star. Look at Jenna Jameson, appearing in mainstream Hollywood movies and sitcoms, and the iconic status of John Holmes. Look at Ron Jeremy, ferfuxache. These guys are all completely unapologetic about what they do for a living. All are in control of what they they do. All of them make a bundle of cash.
I think what they are doing is promoting the idea of porn as non-exploitative, as a viable career move. If you're growing up, as Matt said, without the traditional moral standpoints of old, there is no reason why you shouldn't look at these positive, intellegent and beautiful people (alright, maybe not Ron) and want to emulate them.
More positive role models and an open attitude are what is needed to make porn socially acceptable, I think. We forumites all know that (for example) Phil and Cathy Barry, or Violet and Phil McC are the perfect examples of bright, business-savvy couples who make a good living out of porn, and have a blast doing it. This is exactly the kind of positive image that should be promoted more. Although certain members of the forum may groan, I think a British Jenna Jameson would be no bad thing, to give porn in this country the boot into the mainstream it needs. Any suggestions?
I think what they are doing is promoting the idea of porn as non-exploitative, as a viable career move. If you're growing up, as Matt said, without the traditional moral standpoints of old, there is no reason why you shouldn't look at these positive, intellegent and beautiful people (alright, maybe not Ron) and want to emulate them.
More positive role models and an open attitude are what is needed to make porn socially acceptable, I think. We forumites all know that (for example) Phil and Cathy Barry, or Violet and Phil McC are the perfect examples of bright, business-savvy couples who make a good living out of porn, and have a blast doing it. This is exactly the kind of positive image that should be promoted more. Although certain members of the forum may groan, I think a British Jenna Jameson would be no bad thing, to give porn in this country the boot into the mainstream it needs. Any suggestions?
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Layla~Jade
Re: Social acceptability of porn: a Rimbaud rumina
Yes, your right about the states. It allready IS socially acceptable to say your involved in porn... perhaps not whilst talking to an elderly nun though (lol)
No, whilst I may think twice about openly admmiting to my chosen career, in the UK, if I was asked in a pub say...
I certainly wouldnt giver it a second thought over here...
So yes, I think that the aattitudes over here are pretty cool...
Eventually the UK MAY catch up... But certainly not during "my time" in the biz... give it say 15 years or so, and hopefully, (fingers crossed) things will be different...
ermm thats all... just got back from tera Patrick show...
1 or2 pics will be on my site soon...
Luv lay xx
No, whilst I may think twice about openly admmiting to my chosen career, in the UK, if I was asked in a pub say...
I certainly wouldnt giver it a second thought over here...
So yes, I think that the aattitudes over here are pretty cool...
Eventually the UK MAY catch up... But certainly not during "my time" in the biz... give it say 15 years or so, and hopefully, (fingers crossed) things will be different...
ermm thats all... just got back from tera Patrick show...
1 or2 pics will be on my site soon...
Luv lay xx
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mike johnson
Re: Social acceptability of porn: a Rimbaud rumina
A couple of months ago, Jenna was pictured in the "Newsmakers" section of Newsweek magazine along w/ her "action figure". She has also been on a couple mainstream TV shows.I have a friend whose daughter attends Sarah Lawrence College in N.Y.C.; Stacy Valentine was invited to speak, & rather than being picketed,she was asked after her talk how to get into The Biz by a couple girls.(But this is part & parcel of the new attitude among young women, at least in the U.S., that they are equally entitled to sex as males.)One of the national sports radio shows does football pics Fridays w/ a Vivid girl.So, while it is far from being totally accepted, porn is getting more that way all the time....
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RockCharogne
Re: Social acceptability of porn: a Rimbaud rumina
Surely all these things are evolutionary. It may take another 15 years ? or less or more ? before porn in the UK is viewed as being as commonplace as it is in the States. Yet I suspect we generalise too much here. Are there not areas in the US where porn is viewed with a disapproval far worse than anywhere in the UK!?
The mere fact that we have this board and this dialogue is, to me a sign of considerable progress. I remember the 1960s (admittedly I was only a schoolboy then) when access to a magazine with an occasional black and white topless shot was a real treat. Certainly no top shelf mags or R18 vids (in fact no vids at all) of today?s explicitness. Now we have stunningly attractive girls ? like Layla Jade, Wendy, Cathy and all the others ? just in the UK ? let alone elsewhere providing erotic entertainment I could never have dreamt of in those days ? long may it continue.
That said, where will it all end? I recall when some of the US starlets would decline facial cum shots, then anal ? yet both are now routine. Fine by me ? but then we?re on to Max Hardcore, vomiting, gagging, bukkake and even greater extremes in some US and European porn. I can cope with what I?ve seen but surely pushing the envelope has got to stop somewhere?
What do people think?
BTW did anyone watch Lay on Tera Patrick ? I couldn?t cope with 3am (even with the onset of Layla Jade withdrawal symptoms) but I look forward to any pics or reports
The mere fact that we have this board and this dialogue is, to me a sign of considerable progress. I remember the 1960s (admittedly I was only a schoolboy then) when access to a magazine with an occasional black and white topless shot was a real treat. Certainly no top shelf mags or R18 vids (in fact no vids at all) of today?s explicitness. Now we have stunningly attractive girls ? like Layla Jade, Wendy, Cathy and all the others ? just in the UK ? let alone elsewhere providing erotic entertainment I could never have dreamt of in those days ? long may it continue.
That said, where will it all end? I recall when some of the US starlets would decline facial cum shots, then anal ? yet both are now routine. Fine by me ? but then we?re on to Max Hardcore, vomiting, gagging, bukkake and even greater extremes in some US and European porn. I can cope with what I?ve seen but surely pushing the envelope has got to stop somewhere?
What do people think?
BTW did anyone watch Lay on Tera Patrick ? I couldn?t cope with 3am (even with the onset of Layla Jade withdrawal symptoms) but I look forward to any pics or reports
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DaveyBlueMouth
Re: Social acceptability of porn: a Rimbaud rumina
Its not the porn that is the problem but do we want mental people being socially acce[tabel. half of the people are crackers and the rest are fucked up. No! keep it where it is and let the big boys play with the industry, not mind cabbaged pornstars. and putting pornstar on your pasport ios not kewl. you fools at home just think it is!
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marcusallen
Re: Social acceptability of porn: a Rimbaud rumina
Hey Davey, what you been drinking? Next time I want to be bitter & twisted I'll try some.
Scotch just makes me mellow.
Scotch just makes me mellow.
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Crimpo
Re: Social acceptability of porn: a Rimbaud rumina
My alarm was set but the effects of a visit to the Planet Beer the night before meant I slept thru it - DOH!!!!
As to social acceptability - the UK is moving and has moved a long way in the ten years I've been taking notice. As for the US - good point made above that some areas have a sound attitude to porn but others make the UK look like Amsterdam! Anyway, what would the US pornsters do without our girls to rescue their movies for them!
As to social acceptability - the UK is moving and has moved a long way in the ten years I've been taking notice. As for the US - good point made above that some areas have a sound attitude to porn but others make the UK look like Amsterdam! Anyway, what would the US pornsters do without our girls to rescue their movies for them!
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Rimbaud
Re: Social acceptability of porn: a Rimbaud rumina
Interesting point about American attitudes. The states is a place of extremes, from the extreme libertarianism which allows stuff like, um, 'Gag Factor' to be produced, to the supreme intolerance of the bible belt.
On a related tangent - I have to admit that I do find extreme stuff like, say, Gag Factor or Slap Happy, pretty distasteful. I'm not calling for it to be banned; if you adhere to the liberal principle of consent (i.e. that consensual activities between adults which harm nobody - or nobody but the participants - should not be prevented by the state) then you must hold to that principle even where the results are personally disgusting to you. There is, however, far more of the taint of exploitation associated with this kind of production than with other forms of porn (in my opinion). Even with somewhat raincoatery stuff like Matador, or Sodomania, or Gangbang Girl, many of the girls seem to actively enjoy what they're doing. Can we really imagine a girl genuinely enjoying participating in, say, Gag Factor 567? I would *tentatively* suggest that if you profiled the girls who appear in films like these, you would *probably* find that on the whole they are closer than usual to the stereotype of a woman who 'does' porn because of a lack of other options. (That's not intended to be a blanket truism, before anyone gets offended). I'm concerned by the power relationship between producer and performer in this sort of film. I'm not suggesting, for a moment, that the distortion is sufficient to undermine the notion that the girls have consented. They know what they are getting into and make a decision that the money is worth it, I'm sure. But IMO we are definitely closer to the edge in terms of what is tolerable.
All in all, this sort of thing is no more 'exploitative' - a good deal less so, probably - than the regular (and widely accepted) spectacle of poor boys from the ghetto getting the crap beaten out of them in the boxing ring in return for the pocket change that the millionaire promoter found down the back of his sofa. But what we consider tolerable, and what we think should be allowed, is not the same as what we find palateable in accordance with our own morality (and taste). Stuff like Gag Factor may be legally justifiable but to me, it's just a little too close to the bone of morality.
Then there's the slippery (ahem) question of bukkake...
Rimbaud
On a related tangent - I have to admit that I do find extreme stuff like, say, Gag Factor or Slap Happy, pretty distasteful. I'm not calling for it to be banned; if you adhere to the liberal principle of consent (i.e. that consensual activities between adults which harm nobody - or nobody but the participants - should not be prevented by the state) then you must hold to that principle even where the results are personally disgusting to you. There is, however, far more of the taint of exploitation associated with this kind of production than with other forms of porn (in my opinion). Even with somewhat raincoatery stuff like Matador, or Sodomania, or Gangbang Girl, many of the girls seem to actively enjoy what they're doing. Can we really imagine a girl genuinely enjoying participating in, say, Gag Factor 567? I would *tentatively* suggest that if you profiled the girls who appear in films like these, you would *probably* find that on the whole they are closer than usual to the stereotype of a woman who 'does' porn because of a lack of other options. (That's not intended to be a blanket truism, before anyone gets offended). I'm concerned by the power relationship between producer and performer in this sort of film. I'm not suggesting, for a moment, that the distortion is sufficient to undermine the notion that the girls have consented. They know what they are getting into and make a decision that the money is worth it, I'm sure. But IMO we are definitely closer to the edge in terms of what is tolerable.
All in all, this sort of thing is no more 'exploitative' - a good deal less so, probably - than the regular (and widely accepted) spectacle of poor boys from the ghetto getting the crap beaten out of them in the boxing ring in return for the pocket change that the millionaire promoter found down the back of his sofa. But what we consider tolerable, and what we think should be allowed, is not the same as what we find palateable in accordance with our own morality (and taste). Stuff like Gag Factor may be legally justifiable but to me, it's just a little too close to the bone of morality.
Then there's the slippery (ahem) question of bukkake...
Rimbaud