You almost sounded like colenel then, Keith.
Shit-stirring indeed. Hhmmph!
Harry Patch - R.I.P.
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Sam Slater
- Posts: 11624
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Harry Patch - R.I.P.
[i]I used to spend a lot of time criticizing Islam on here in the noughties - but things are much better now.[/i]
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Sam Slater
- Posts: 11624
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Harry Patch - R.I.P.
I blame Robches for this foul mood your in. Bad Robches.
[i]I used to spend a lot of time criticizing Islam on here in the noughties - but things are much better now.[/i]
Re: Harry Patch - R.I.P.
Reggie Perrin wrote:
> I never knew there were so many apologists for the Great War
> out there. Your analysis may have some interesting facts but it
> is superficial and takes no account of the actual people
> involved and is only an analysis. Telling people who were
> around long before you and I were and had much greater hardship
> in their lives because of this war than we can really
> understand, that it wasn't so bad taken as a whole in the
> fullness of time and hey people only started writing about it
> after it was over anyway, might come across as a revisionist
> approach. I say it lacks sensitivity in the extreme, just as
> ever saying that the loss of millions of people could ever be a
> justification for any idea or the means of resolving a
> political problem.
>
>
Your argument, such as it was, was that WWI was futile, a war fought for nothing. In fact, it was fought for almost exactly the same reasons as WWII, to stop Germany destroying France and Russia, annexing Belgium, enslaving Poland and the Ukraine, and driving Great Britain from the seas. You might think that's nothing, or futile, but who's being superficial here? You seem to been under the impression that I am blase about the cost of war. Not true. I am saying that the men from Britain, France, the USA and the allies who fought in both world wars did so for a good reason, and they did not die in vain.
> I never knew there were so many apologists for the Great War
> out there. Your analysis may have some interesting facts but it
> is superficial and takes no account of the actual people
> involved and is only an analysis. Telling people who were
> around long before you and I were and had much greater hardship
> in their lives because of this war than we can really
> understand, that it wasn't so bad taken as a whole in the
> fullness of time and hey people only started writing about it
> after it was over anyway, might come across as a revisionist
> approach. I say it lacks sensitivity in the extreme, just as
> ever saying that the loss of millions of people could ever be a
> justification for any idea or the means of resolving a
> political problem.
>
>
Your argument, such as it was, was that WWI was futile, a war fought for nothing. In fact, it was fought for almost exactly the same reasons as WWII, to stop Germany destroying France and Russia, annexing Belgium, enslaving Poland and the Ukraine, and driving Great Britain from the seas. You might think that's nothing, or futile, but who's being superficial here? You seem to been under the impression that I am blase about the cost of war. Not true. I am saying that the men from Britain, France, the USA and the allies who fought in both world wars did so for a good reason, and they did not die in vain.
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justincyder
- Posts: 326
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Harry Patch - R.I.P.
Can i just say that i think all main contributors made some valid points.
My great uncle died at Ypres, i can't say i feel any huge loss particluar to him as i never knew him, but i nonetheless am always deeply saddened at the thought of so many killed, no matter the reason why.
I think human society is fundamentally flawed no matter what socio/eco/political stance makes it up at the time. Were either wars necessary? Probably given the circumstances at the time in terms of the politics at the time, ultimately were they worth it? probably not, especially if you look about the world in its current state.
I'm not saying that hitler wasn't worth fighting against either but if the first world war hadnt happened neither would hitler, but at the same time as someone made the point the first world war had to happen simply because of the various struggles for power being made at the time by the various powers that be.
neither am i attacking capitalist/monarchial/democratic states, communism has jardly fared better over the years nor has it treated those it claims to serve any better. the problem with all politics and indeed religion is that humans are involved.
War is still glorifed in various forms as it was back before the 1st world war, its probably the only thing humans as a whole are good at as we've been doing it since we learnt to first pick up a stick. Unfortunately its in our very nature to do so, to challenge our destructiveness goes against our status within the natural order. sad but true.
Clearly not everyone is afflicted by this, I for one couldn't be arsed fighting with anyone and never have had cause to, thousands of young mainly drunk males knocking the shit out of each other every friday and saturday night over girls/spilt pints, being looked at the wrong way, however would suggest that thats just the way it is as distasteful as we might find it in a modern 'civilised' society.
of course given the right prompt ie someone attacking a loved one, i'd happliy spring to the defence and if needs be kill the aggressor if it warranted it, because whilst i'm not naturally violent i nonetheless maintain the ability to be so.
Nothing will ever change short of destroying the part of the brain of male children at birth that controls our aggression and the need to compete.
Wars will still be fought, people will support/oppose them. then you'll die and a new generation will continue on in the same pattern.
human nature - its thoroughly depressing
My great uncle died at Ypres, i can't say i feel any huge loss particluar to him as i never knew him, but i nonetheless am always deeply saddened at the thought of so many killed, no matter the reason why.
I think human society is fundamentally flawed no matter what socio/eco/political stance makes it up at the time. Were either wars necessary? Probably given the circumstances at the time in terms of the politics at the time, ultimately were they worth it? probably not, especially if you look about the world in its current state.
I'm not saying that hitler wasn't worth fighting against either but if the first world war hadnt happened neither would hitler, but at the same time as someone made the point the first world war had to happen simply because of the various struggles for power being made at the time by the various powers that be.
neither am i attacking capitalist/monarchial/democratic states, communism has jardly fared better over the years nor has it treated those it claims to serve any better. the problem with all politics and indeed religion is that humans are involved.
War is still glorifed in various forms as it was back before the 1st world war, its probably the only thing humans as a whole are good at as we've been doing it since we learnt to first pick up a stick. Unfortunately its in our very nature to do so, to challenge our destructiveness goes against our status within the natural order. sad but true.
Clearly not everyone is afflicted by this, I for one couldn't be arsed fighting with anyone and never have had cause to, thousands of young mainly drunk males knocking the shit out of each other every friday and saturday night over girls/spilt pints, being looked at the wrong way, however would suggest that thats just the way it is as distasteful as we might find it in a modern 'civilised' society.
of course given the right prompt ie someone attacking a loved one, i'd happliy spring to the defence and if needs be kill the aggressor if it warranted it, because whilst i'm not naturally violent i nonetheless maintain the ability to be so.
Nothing will ever change short of destroying the part of the brain of male children at birth that controls our aggression and the need to compete.
Wars will still be fought, people will support/oppose them. then you'll die and a new generation will continue on in the same pattern.
human nature - its thoroughly depressing