Lily Allen retires..

[Bill Malone]

Lily's fine. It's her mimics that grate on the nerves.
Her song The Fear is amazingly catchy, not unlike an STD, haters would say: it gets in your head and no amount of antibiotics will remove it. So if that's he last release, that'll be a career high in my book.
Also she has a cute nose, lovely big eyes and her boobies are all over google. So she won't go far.
[img]http://www.talentlesswhores.com/wp-cont ... _11021.jpg[/img]

Plus she resembles pornstar Leone which is also a good thing.

[Bill Malone]

Leone Luder, lovely, lush Lily-a-like.
[img]http://peachyforum.com/forums/storage/1 ... f02856.jpg[/img]

[Jonone]

I was talking about commitment and personal investment and also used the example of Polanski's 'Pianist' which you (not surprisingly) chose not to acknowledge.

You'll probably contend that the Polanski film is high art whereas Lily Allen is an example of low or pop culture whereas I don't think this is important. If Graham Greene hadn't been a Catholic would his work be considered to be as significant as it is .. by some ? Would Dylan's Blood On The Tracks be as resonant a work if he'd merely imagined what it might be like to go through separation and divorce ?

You seem to think such issues are unimportant while others take a different view.

[David Johnson]

"If Graham Greene hadn't been a Catholic would his work be considered to be as significant as it is .."

If Keith Richards hadn't been a black cotton picker from Louisiana and experienced at first hand, oppression by his white masters, would his RnB work have been considered his best by Jonone?

"I was talking about commitment and personal investment and also used the example of Polanski's 'Pianist' which you (not surprisingly) chose not to acknowledge"

Pot, kettle black!! Given you don't mention anything at all about my comeback on your point about the Stones.

Look, nowhere have I said that it is a disadvantage to have experienced directly the things that you sing/write about.

What I am saying is that it is not an essential requirement as YOU YOURSELF have shown with your view on the Stones. Surely you can understand the implication of your own point?

A writer who does their research well, has empathy and insight and is from a technical point of view a great writer/lyricist, can produce great work without having directly experienced what they write about. If they have direct experience all to the good.

D

[Jonone]

I described The Stones as enthusiasts; how does this imply first hand experience and authenticity ? Someone who does civil war reenactments is also an enthusiast but clearly they can't time travel. I was talking about commitment and some degree of sincerity.

Yes, they can write 'Honky Tonk Women' without having set foot in a Honky Tonk, but if they had no affection for r&b it's unlikely that the song would be any good. If a band like Keane covered 'Straight Outa Compton' wouldn't you find it absurd ? According to your argument there's absolutely no reason why they couldn't make a decent fist of it !

[The Last Word]

David Johnson wrote:

> Very simply, two things are required.

> 1. An understanding of the genre/content that you are into to.
> In the case of quirky pop like Lily Allen this involves sharp
> lyrics and interesting rhythyms.

With Allen, this is purely down to opinion.

> 2. A technical ability to deliver e.g. in the case of music,
> the capability to convert your ideas/lyrics into something
> memorable.

That and a good production team I suppose.

> What you DO NOT need to be a writer of detective stories is a
> detective. What you DO NOT need to be a writer/performer of
> pop songs is to have lived that specific experience yourself.

Never said you did. Bob Dylan was about as middle class as it gets, wasn't he? But at least he meant it when he sung of the poor and disenfranchised. He stuck at it, too.

If you like Allen's flaccid, class-tourist pop, then fine, but it's the work of a careerist - pop as a stepping stone to other, higher things once either her fickle interest has waned, the public have lost interest and it becomes an unviable business move, or, as likely as the others, better competition reveals her as trite and lightweight.

> What you DO need is insight and empathy.

At last. Give me an example of Allen's insight and empathy then.

[number 6]

How can you write songs about working class life if you have no experience of it? I dont suppose lily allen has ever had to struggle for anything in her life,yet her songs are one big fake act making out she is a streetwise working class urchin struggling on,what a con.

[David Johnson]

I think we agree. The only problem is you don't seem to realise it.

You believe that if someone has an authentic experience of something they are writing/singing about all to the good. I agree.

I am saying that if you have sufficient feel for something and the technical ability to deliver it, it can be very good even though the artists concerned have no real experience of the environment that spawned the music or the situation they are writing about. You agree, because this is exactly what you are saying about the Stones.


I will leave you to argue with yourself now.

D

[David Johnson]

To summarise then. I quite like Lily Allen, but hey it's only pop. You don't.
Nothing else to say as far as I can see.

[max_tranmere]

David, Keith Richards never PRETENDED to be a cotton farmer from Louisiana. He was just inspired by the music that came from communities like that. Growing up in Dartford, Kent, as he did, it would have been difficult to come from a community that was more differnt. Being inspired by something is ok in my view, when someone wants others to think that they really are that thing that is when it becomes absurd. Lily Allen is more like a Chelsea It Girl than an East End comprehensive school educated person who grew up in a council flat, but she wants you to think that she is the latter.