Sam's disappointments?

[Sam Slater]

Sam's reluctance is to do with not feeding the trolls. I could go on and tell you that I have friends at Forgemasters and they knew in March that this ?80m wasn't going to come until AFTER the election; that, in other words, it was just a vote-catcher in an area that was a marginal seat.(there was a 10.8% swing to the Lib Dems). They could have given Forgemasters the loan in March or April to buy that press, which was needed for the contract. In March, when the loan was promised, every poll had the Conservatives way, way out in front. Labour knew it was a promise they'd never have to keep and thus was total bullshit.

Where I will criticise the coalition is on them not pressurising the banks into lending Forgemasters this loan. We, the people, have bailed them out afterall. If it will create jobs then lending money to businesses like this is what we want them to do, isn't it?

[David Johnson]

Hi Sam,
Glad to see you are back in the world of political discussion.

You say
"I could go on and tell you that I have friends at Forgemasters and they knew in March that this ?80m wasn't going to come until AFTER the election; that, in other words, it was just a vote-catcher in an area that was a marginal seat."

True, Labour were behind in the polls and had been for some time. In the Thatcher years, the Tories had some of the lowest election polls ever recorded at different points during her period as PM. This did not mean either government gave up the ghost and stopped functioning as a government in the run in to the election. Nor has it ever meant that a government should not make commitments for spend post-election.

Secondly you say
"In March, when the loan was promised, every poll had the Conservatives way, way out in front."

This is wrong. For example, a YouGov/Sun poll in mid _march when the loan was announced, gave the Conservatives a 4% lead over Labour - well within the margin of error. And as you know most of the election campaign was fought in hung parliament territory with everything to play for.

This blows apart your argument that this was money promised which Labour had no plans to pay at all because they knew the Conservatives were "way, way out in front"

Thirdly you say
"Where I will criticise the coalition is on them not pressurising the banks into lending Forgemasters this loan."

This shows a basic misunderstanding of how business and European funded money works. It also shows a basic misunderstanding of the story behind the Sheffield Forgemasters loan.

To secure the funding, the government pledged ?85m approx in loans, with ?35m from the European Investment Bank. The nuclear reactor firm Westinghouse was paying ?50m upfront for its orders. The latter two investments were dependent of the first from the government's strategic investment initiative.

In the recent recession it has been self-evident that banks, on the receiving end of government demands to increase their own capitalisation are ever more cautious about loaning substantial sums of money to manufacturing businesses. As in just about every Western country, governments can and do play a role in supporting this type of strategic nvestment.

This is one of those situations.

Cheers
D

[Ned]

From the BBC.

More than ?17,500 has been spent topping up the government wine cellar since the election, it has emerged.

It brings the total value of fine wine stored for VIP functions to ?864,000

[number 6]

they wont cut the wine bill,but they will sure as hell cut benefits

[David Johnson]

Blimey, is trying to defend the indefensible finally getting to you?

You gave up the ghost earlier in this thread

http://bgafd.co.uk/forum/read.php?f=3&i=232957&t=232637

and now you appear to have thrown in the towel when I rubbished your argument about Sheffield Forgemasters.

http://bgafd.co.uk/forum/read.php?f=3&i=233285&t=232637

Cheers
D

[Sam Slater]

I'm not feeding the trolls.

[David Johnson]

"I'm not feeding the trolls."

Ah, yes, a troll - someone who disagrees with you and challenges your posts with comments you appear unable to respond to.

I will add it to my dictionary.

Cheers
D

[Ned]

He's not trolling you, he's demolishing your points with factual posts that you can't respond to.

[Sam Slater]

He/you/number 6 have been questioning me about everything this coalition does for over 2 months. I've probably answered more questions than Clegg and Cameron combined. I played along for a good six weeks until I realised most of you were just feeding off it all. It stopped being a debate and more a Sam Slater Q&A for 3 or 4 posters.

I think that some Labour voters round here seem to think they can take their frustrations out on me. Cos that's all it is....frustration.

[Ned]

You've been bigging up the coalition ever since the election and talking about how great it is, despite the Lib Dems dumping everything they wanted, or deferring it for a future unspecified date, so you've been challenged. You have been unable to respond with any facts and your points have been demolished time and again

That's not trolling, it's called losing a discussion.

And as you haven't mentioned it, here's a bit of disillusioned Labour angst for you. John Hutton and Frank Field should fuck off and join the Tory party if they want to work with them so badly. At least they haven't used the "in the national interest" parroted argument like Cleggy and Co though.

They're a disgrace all the same.