Well, Cleggie did warn us immediately before the election, understandably because VAT is a very regressive tax. THe increase is the same whether you are living on the street or you have a mansion in Mayfair.
http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/u ... ll/3606227
Thankfully, he said the Lib Dems wouldn't be increasing VAT.
Hang on, aren't the Lib Dems in power and voting for it? Bloody hell, shafted again! Who'd be a Lib Dem voter?
CHeers
D
Tory VAT Bombshell
Re: Tory VAT Bombshell
But Dave - what do you think that Brown and his wrecking crew would have done different if the electorate had been collectively foolish enough to give them another term?
Because let's face it, they stopped being the party of the working man years ago.
Get real, my man. Joe Soap was always going to get shafted *whoever* got in.
- Eric
Because let's face it, they stopped being the party of the working man years ago.
Get real, my man. Joe Soap was always going to get shafted *whoever* got in.
- Eric
Re: Tory VAT Bombshell
They wont have any voters left at the next election,the most brazen bunch of opportunists i have ever seen in politics,all the talk before the election out of the window just to get all touch feely with dave,nauseating stuff.
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Tory VAT Bombshell
"But Dave - what do you think that Brown and his wrecking crew would have done different "
If you look at the history of VAT rises, it is the Tories that are the party of VAT rises, not the Labour party. The Lib Dems were also totally against VAT rises immediately before the election. The Labour party was against bringing in cuts this year which would affect the fragile recovery. The Lib Dems also supported the Labour party in this view. As we know the Lib Dems threw out their principles for power.
Clearly whatever party had got into power there would have been substantial cuts and tax rises. The Labour tax rises proposed such as national insurance, unlike VAT rises, are linked to what you earn. It is guesswork, obviously, but I would have been very very surprised if the Labour party had introduced the huge cuts in benefits that have been announced by Osborne today.
There have always been differences between the Labour party and the Tories. There still are.
Cheers
D
If you look at the history of VAT rises, it is the Tories that are the party of VAT rises, not the Labour party. The Lib Dems were also totally against VAT rises immediately before the election. The Labour party was against bringing in cuts this year which would affect the fragile recovery. The Lib Dems also supported the Labour party in this view. As we know the Lib Dems threw out their principles for power.
Clearly whatever party had got into power there would have been substantial cuts and tax rises. The Labour tax rises proposed such as national insurance, unlike VAT rises, are linked to what you earn. It is guesswork, obviously, but I would have been very very surprised if the Labour party had introduced the huge cuts in benefits that have been announced by Osborne today.
There have always been differences between the Labour party and the Tories. There still are.
Cheers
D
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Sickening hypocrisy
And here is Cleggie talking about the Tory VAT bombshell and how only a vote for the Lib Dems will secure fairness in taxation.
You really couldnt make it up!
http://itn.co.uk/2dea0e12aeeb270422f4276c4626d872.html
CHeers
D
You really couldnt make it up!
http://itn.co.uk/2dea0e12aeeb270422f4276c4626d872.html
CHeers
D
Re: Sickening hypocrisy
Only a first class mug would ever vote lib dem again.
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Bob Singleton
- Posts: 1975
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Tory VAT Bombshell
VAT will always be the Tories first choice when raising taxes because it affects the rich far less than a rise in income tax.
The extra VAT one will have to pay on ones new Bentley Continental GT will be ?3095.00... a considerable saving on what one would have had to have paid in increased income tax had the smelly socks won again!
The extra VAT one will have to pay on ones new Bentley Continental GT will be ?3095.00... a considerable saving on what one would have had to have paid in increased income tax had the smelly socks won again!
"But how to make Liverpool economically prosperous? If only there was some way for Liverpudlians to profit from going on and on about the past in a whiny voice."
- Stewart Lee
- Stewart Lee
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justincyder
- Posts: 326
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Tory VAT Bombshell
look you lot honestly the fact that noone seems to grasp what sort of financial state this coutry is in and all people can do is whine about cuts, tax increases etc.
If you owe ?10000 on your credit card, do you think - oh I know the best way to deal with that is I'll go and spend some more or do you cut back. Its basic economics, not difficult to grasp.
So what there's a VAT increase, that will only really affect people who are in a postion to carry on spending anyway, thats an increase on non essential general goods eg TV's, cars etc not the likes of gas/electricity which is at a different rate anyway.
You get an extra ?1000 of your income untaxed so if you're not out pissing it up the wall then you're not losing out, its designed to protect the less well off believe it or not. Pensions are now linked - a good thing. Again it'll help hard up pensioners. Corporate and small business tax has been reduced, this will help to increase profits which will increase expansion which will increase investment which will increase jobs which will increase tax which will decrease national debt.
And don't give me 'o what about the poor'. Well the last time I looked on my local council estate, everyone has sky tv, nearly all smoke and pretty much the rest can afford to be in the boozer most nights.
Now believe it or not i'm no tory, in fact i'm politically agnostic but this budget review is not as bad as you would make out. Do you think it's been done to make themselves popular or do you think its been done because they think it's actually going to help us in the long term.
Of course labour are going to go 'ooo thats terrible look at all the cuts' whislt already quickly neglecting to mention that THEY GOT US INTO THIS SHITE in the 1st instance. Only complete fantastical idiots living in doo la la land can expect this country to carry on funding public services at the previous rate because people and here's the clincher IT WASN'T WITH THEIR MONEY IT WAS WITH BORROWING.
And if any twat now pipes up with oo tax the rich tax the banks, you're a moron. Certainly the banks fucked up but whether you like it or not the banks are the financial heart of the country, you can't cut too deep into them because they keep everyhting else alive whether you like it or not, I don;t like it but thats the matter of it.
And the rich are already paying more due to their tax band. Besides why should someone who has spent their lives working their nuts off to build themselves up have to pay even more to bail out everyone else, where would the incentive be then to educate yourself, get a good job and work hard.
No I'm not rich either I just refuse to be one of the 'whiney bastard blame it on someone else brigade' that saturates this country
If you owe ?10000 on your credit card, do you think - oh I know the best way to deal with that is I'll go and spend some more or do you cut back. Its basic economics, not difficult to grasp.
So what there's a VAT increase, that will only really affect people who are in a postion to carry on spending anyway, thats an increase on non essential general goods eg TV's, cars etc not the likes of gas/electricity which is at a different rate anyway.
You get an extra ?1000 of your income untaxed so if you're not out pissing it up the wall then you're not losing out, its designed to protect the less well off believe it or not. Pensions are now linked - a good thing. Again it'll help hard up pensioners. Corporate and small business tax has been reduced, this will help to increase profits which will increase expansion which will increase investment which will increase jobs which will increase tax which will decrease national debt.
And don't give me 'o what about the poor'. Well the last time I looked on my local council estate, everyone has sky tv, nearly all smoke and pretty much the rest can afford to be in the boozer most nights.
Now believe it or not i'm no tory, in fact i'm politically agnostic but this budget review is not as bad as you would make out. Do you think it's been done to make themselves popular or do you think its been done because they think it's actually going to help us in the long term.
Of course labour are going to go 'ooo thats terrible look at all the cuts' whislt already quickly neglecting to mention that THEY GOT US INTO THIS SHITE in the 1st instance. Only complete fantastical idiots living in doo la la land can expect this country to carry on funding public services at the previous rate because people and here's the clincher IT WASN'T WITH THEIR MONEY IT WAS WITH BORROWING.
And if any twat now pipes up with oo tax the rich tax the banks, you're a moron. Certainly the banks fucked up but whether you like it or not the banks are the financial heart of the country, you can't cut too deep into them because they keep everyhting else alive whether you like it or not, I don;t like it but thats the matter of it.
And the rich are already paying more due to their tax band. Besides why should someone who has spent their lives working their nuts off to build themselves up have to pay even more to bail out everyone else, where would the incentive be then to educate yourself, get a good job and work hard.
No I'm not rich either I just refuse to be one of the 'whiney bastard blame it on someone else brigade' that saturates this country
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Justincyder
"If you owe ?10000 on your credit card, do you think - oh I know the best way to deal with that is I'll go and spend some more or do you cut back. Its basic economics, not difficult to grasp."
Thank you for the economics lesson. It was really valuable. However, as far as I am aware no-one on this forum is arguing that the best way of getting rid of a deficit is spending more money that you have not got.
"So what there's a VAT increase, that will only really affect people who are in a postion to carry on spending anyway, thats an increase on non essential general goods eg TV's, cars etc not the likes of gas/electricity which is at a different rate anyway."
I have corrected this elsewhere in another thread. Everyone will be impacted by the rise in the standard rate.
"You get an extra ?1000 of your income untaxed so if you're not out pissing it up the wall then you're not losing out, its designed to protect the less well off believe it or not."
Err, the result of this will be that basic rate tax payers will be ?170 better off per year. My guess is that will be very easily eaten up by the increase in VAT and the loss of various benefits for most people, free swims for the kids, subsidised services that the local council can no longer provide etc etc.
"Now believe it or not i'm no tory, in fact i'm politically agnostic but this budget review is not as bad as you would make out."
Remind me to ask you that again, when the 25% cuts in all public services apart from the NHS and Overseas Devt. kick in.
"Of course labour are going to go 'ooo thats terrible look at all the cuts' whislt already quickly neglecting to mention that THEY GOT US INTO THIS SHITE in the 1st instance."
Its interesting that the process the UK is going through is very similar to that which the vast majority of EU countries are going through. What is your explanation for this? Is it because all of these countries which have a mix of centre-right and centre-left governments had an attack of madness at exactly the same time? Or do you think it might have possibly, possibly had something to do with the global recession?
"And if any twat now pipes up with oo tax the rich tax the banks, you're a moron. Certainly the banks fucked up but whether you like it or not the banks are the financial heart of the country, you can't cut too deep into them because they keep everyhting else alive whether you like it or not, I don;t like it but thats the matter of it."
Even Osborne is taxing the banks. I will drop him an email to say you are not best pleased.
CHeers
D
Thank you for the economics lesson. It was really valuable. However, as far as I am aware no-one on this forum is arguing that the best way of getting rid of a deficit is spending more money that you have not got.
"So what there's a VAT increase, that will only really affect people who are in a postion to carry on spending anyway, thats an increase on non essential general goods eg TV's, cars etc not the likes of gas/electricity which is at a different rate anyway."
I have corrected this elsewhere in another thread. Everyone will be impacted by the rise in the standard rate.
"You get an extra ?1000 of your income untaxed so if you're not out pissing it up the wall then you're not losing out, its designed to protect the less well off believe it or not."
Err, the result of this will be that basic rate tax payers will be ?170 better off per year. My guess is that will be very easily eaten up by the increase in VAT and the loss of various benefits for most people, free swims for the kids, subsidised services that the local council can no longer provide etc etc.
"Now believe it or not i'm no tory, in fact i'm politically agnostic but this budget review is not as bad as you would make out."
Remind me to ask you that again, when the 25% cuts in all public services apart from the NHS and Overseas Devt. kick in.
"Of course labour are going to go 'ooo thats terrible look at all the cuts' whislt already quickly neglecting to mention that THEY GOT US INTO THIS SHITE in the 1st instance."
Its interesting that the process the UK is going through is very similar to that which the vast majority of EU countries are going through. What is your explanation for this? Is it because all of these countries which have a mix of centre-right and centre-left governments had an attack of madness at exactly the same time? Or do you think it might have possibly, possibly had something to do with the global recession?
"And if any twat now pipes up with oo tax the rich tax the banks, you're a moron. Certainly the banks fucked up but whether you like it or not the banks are the financial heart of the country, you can't cut too deep into them because they keep everyhting else alive whether you like it or not, I don;t like it but thats the matter of it."
Even Osborne is taxing the banks. I will drop him an email to say you are not best pleased.
CHeers
D
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justincyder
- Posts: 326
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Justincyder
D
touche! Points noted and respected but the basics economics lesson was not directed at yourself however there are plenty of people on here who would be moaning about cuts and somehow think borrowing more is the way forward.
?170 better off is better than nothing and again the VAT increase only affects non essentials so food, childrens clothing, fuel etc remain untouced. I'm sorry but I cannot have any sympathy for people who continue to want to live beyond their means and expect the latest mobile phone, to smoke 40 a day, to drink every day to eat nothing but shite ( fruit and vegetables are cheaper than most ready meals never mind the long term benefits) to drive a decent car and so on and so forth.
I volunteer in an outreach program where we go to old folk still in their own homes and cook/clean for them etc. Alot of these are in council estates and I see with my own eyes that aside from the elderley an awful amount of people just sit about scratching their arse drinking and smoking the day away.
Many are brazen enough and unashamed enough to tell you that why should they bother looking for work when they're being paid to stay at home to get shitfaced most days. 6% ish of the country is unemployed and I would say that of that 4% are probably unempolyable. So many people don't want to work and want stuff to be just handed to them, its an attitude we've bred. How does that help society in the long run. They're not even fit to sweep the streets. Nearly everyone I spoke to who was proud to be on the dole was also claiming DLA for stress of some other wank. So thats a free car as well.
I'm not knocking the rest who want to work, every effort should of course be made to get them into employment and to make it worht while. However someone who works the minimum requirement of 16 hrs a week can be entitled to ?1200 in tax credits...?1200 how is that fair on someone working 36 hours a week for ?800 per month.
So I welcome the cuts of 25%. Britain has one of the biggest welfare states in Europe. I work in the public sector and I'm going to be hit by the freeze for 2 years. I also volunteered to take a 7% paycut, it means I'll have to tighten my belt but I'm glad to do so.
I meant it when I said I am truly sick and tired of the whinging people in this country do when they don't get their own way yet they offer no solutions of their own, they just whine like a child and expect someone to fix it. If people bucked their ideas up and actually thought oh what can I do to help maybe we'd be in a better state.
And re the banks Im glad to see theyre being stung for 2 billion thats probably a reasonable balance, I was referring to whomever might say oh they should be paying more or the usual tax the rich argument that is a boring as cardboard.
touche! Points noted and respected but the basics economics lesson was not directed at yourself however there are plenty of people on here who would be moaning about cuts and somehow think borrowing more is the way forward.
?170 better off is better than nothing and again the VAT increase only affects non essentials so food, childrens clothing, fuel etc remain untouced. I'm sorry but I cannot have any sympathy for people who continue to want to live beyond their means and expect the latest mobile phone, to smoke 40 a day, to drink every day to eat nothing but shite ( fruit and vegetables are cheaper than most ready meals never mind the long term benefits) to drive a decent car and so on and so forth.
I volunteer in an outreach program where we go to old folk still in their own homes and cook/clean for them etc. Alot of these are in council estates and I see with my own eyes that aside from the elderley an awful amount of people just sit about scratching their arse drinking and smoking the day away.
Many are brazen enough and unashamed enough to tell you that why should they bother looking for work when they're being paid to stay at home to get shitfaced most days. 6% ish of the country is unemployed and I would say that of that 4% are probably unempolyable. So many people don't want to work and want stuff to be just handed to them, its an attitude we've bred. How does that help society in the long run. They're not even fit to sweep the streets. Nearly everyone I spoke to who was proud to be on the dole was also claiming DLA for stress of some other wank. So thats a free car as well.
I'm not knocking the rest who want to work, every effort should of course be made to get them into employment and to make it worht while. However someone who works the minimum requirement of 16 hrs a week can be entitled to ?1200 in tax credits...?1200 how is that fair on someone working 36 hours a week for ?800 per month.
So I welcome the cuts of 25%. Britain has one of the biggest welfare states in Europe. I work in the public sector and I'm going to be hit by the freeze for 2 years. I also volunteered to take a 7% paycut, it means I'll have to tighten my belt but I'm glad to do so.
I meant it when I said I am truly sick and tired of the whinging people in this country do when they don't get their own way yet they offer no solutions of their own, they just whine like a child and expect someone to fix it. If people bucked their ideas up and actually thought oh what can I do to help maybe we'd be in a better state.
And re the banks Im glad to see theyre being stung for 2 billion thats probably a reasonable balance, I was referring to whomever might say oh they should be paying more or the usual tax the rich argument that is a boring as cardboard.