When did we lose control of our borders?

[max_tranmere]

Does anyone know when, and who, was responsible for our sovereignty being signed away to Europe to such an extent that our borders became so porous that we could not stop the tsumani of foreigners that now come from coming?

The culprit could be John Major in the 1990's with the Maastricht treaty. There could, however, have been attempts to stop the vast numbers coming when the 10 new nations were about to join the EU in 2004, then the other 2 nations in, I think, 2007. I specifically remember in the build up to this in 2004 many people being concerned about the numbers that may come. Tony Blair did nothing and, as predicted, we were swamped.

Who was responsible for creating a situation where anyone can now come from Europe and where we also have the strange situation where other member States can agree, say, that untold numbers from one of their former colonies can move there - which means that country is also saying those people can move here.

I must say that the vast immigration from Europe has been a wonderful thing for our country. I particularly like seeing all the Romanian 'Big Issue' sellers outside supermarkets in London with their head scarves, their nice watches and their mobile phones.

Which former politican is the real baddie in all this?

[JamesW]

Free movement of people has existed since the foundation of the European Community in 1957. It was introduced from an economic point of view, since the right was linked to a person's status as a salaried worker. The right was then extended to self-employed persons and service providers.

The Treaty of Maastricht of 1992 introduced the concept of citizenship of the European Union which confers on every Union citizen a fundamental and personal right to move and reside freely without reference to an economic activity.

[max_tranmere]

We have certainly become more liberal on this in recent times. I knew someone from Poland back in the 1990s who was here on a visa, he got a letter from the Home Office saying "your visa has run out and the Secretary Of State will proceed with your deportation if you either do not get a renewal or you leave the country". This is certainly not the case now. A Pole can move here, and settle forever, as easily as someone from Kent can go and settle in Sussex.

[Essex Lad]

Ted Heath is the real culprit since he signed the treaty of accession. By signing, he also put the Queen in breach of her coronation oath which states that she will rule "according to our laws" - which most certainly are not those of Europe.

British law states that you can do anything except those things specifically proscribed by the state (burglary, murder, rape etc). The Napoleonic Code which is used in most of Europe states that you cannot do anything apart from those things specifically allowed by the state. A very different kettle of poisson...

We will only regain the right to decide who comes here when we leave the EU, which since all major parties are in favour of it isn't going to happen any time soon.

[rgb]

max_tranmere wrote:

> We have certainly become more liberal on this in recent times.
> I knew someone from Poland back in the 1990s who was here on a
> visa, he got a letter from the Home Office saying "your visa
> has run out and the Secretary Of State will proceed with your
> deportation if you either do not get a renewal or you leave the
> country". This is certainly not the case now. A Pole can move
> here, and settle forever, as easily as someone from Kent can go
> and settle in Sussex.

That's because Poland joined the EU - not because of any change we made.

[David Johnson]

Max,
Do you really have so little understanding or is this just an excuse to have your weekly moan about horrible immigrants?

You know that in the EU there is free movement of labour, don't you?

It has been stated enough times on this forum, including the previous week.

Cheers
D

[andy at handiwork]

Can you imagine what the Little Englanders will be like if there is Scottish independence in the next few years?
Spot on about Dan Snow.

[max_tranmere]

Interesting. I've always viewed Ted Heath as being a bit nieve. He didn't realise what it would lead to. He was still defending everything he did however right up to his dying day.

[max_tranmere]

As I understand it we thought we could get a certain number come, but we ended up with a vast amount more. Even Ed Milliband has recently said "we underestimated the numbers that would come." Yes indeed...