Hillsborough Inquest....

[Sam Slater]

Nobody is right or wrong. We can never know how much the police, club, FA and fans are to blame.

I choose to treat Liverpool fans like human beings.......ie NOT sheep.

Rather than 'Hey lads......it looks crammed in here....shall we try one of the other pens?', most didn't. The only way the fans could be totally innocent is if the police actually kettled them down into those pens.

That's not to excuse the police. As DJ said, the should have blocked off the pens that were already full. But it seems an abhorrence akin to holocaust denial to even hint at passing some blame onto fans and that's because of the first investigation and blaming everything on the fans by police and some parts of the press. Liverpool fans were treated disgustingly and so people overcompensate to make amends. It's natural but distracts from finding the real truth in my view.

Fuck DJ. He implied I was some heartless bastard that doesn't give a fuck just because I don't agree with him. He tried to pass it off as nothing and when I show him so he can't deny it he glosses over it in his reply. His heart's in the right place but his own pride and arrogance lets him down. That's tolerable normally, but when he starts sullying my character in that way without feeling the need to apologise he stops being worth my time. There'll be no more exchanges.

[David Johnson]

"Fuck DJ. He implied I was some heartless bastard that doesn't give a fuck just because I don't agree with him. He tried to pass it off as nothing and when I show him so he can't deny it he glosses over it in his reply. His heart's in the right place but his own pride and arrogance lets him down. That's tolerable normally, but when he starts sullying my character in that way without feeling the need to apologise he stops being worth my time. There'll be no more exchanges."

Oh for heaven's sake Sam. How old are you?

In the discussion we had yonks ago about Nick Clegg, you couldn't answer my questions so you left the forum for a few months.

In the discussion on whether the invasion of Iraq was legal or not, you refused to answer my questions unless I first agreed with you that it was legal.

And now this verbally violent onslaught as an excuse for not answering my questions. What on earth is wrong with you?

You stated "Sounds harsh, but unless you're over 30, you'll not remember anything about that day. Let Liverpool hold their anniversaries, but we don't need it at every ground, every year."

I replied "Yeah lets forget about all this Remembrance Day shite. World War 2 who gives a fuck. 96 people who got smeared by the police and the Sun, give it a fucking rest. Move on. Eh?"

Why shouldn't people under 30 who are football supporters of other teams take part in a minute's silence or whatever should they wish? What is wrong with that? Not exactly a huge commitment is it? One minute of people's time. I wonder what the Everton supporters who immaculately adhered to the minute's silence would agree with you?

There but for the grace of God. There are plenty of people who regularly remember the dead of wars who have no involvement or even personal memory of those wars. Are they being "guilt tripped". There are plenty of people of all ages that have no personal connections to the IRaq and Afghan wars who turn out to remember the dead etc.

If you can't or won't answer my questions on topics, just say so without coming up with some absurd set of excuses.

[fatmick]

Fair point again Sam,
DJ I am aware of the pros and cons of Scottish independence, I just happen to think that, on balance of the arguments, it is better that Scotland governs itself.
Thanks for your concern though.

[David Johnson]

"DJ I am aware of the pros and cons of Scottish independence,"

Have you expressed them on here? I'm not Gypsy Rose Lee.

[fatmick]

And there is no place for an alternative view of these things?

[fatmick]

It is my understanding that you are not a resident of Scotland and therefore not entitled to vote on this issue?

[David Johnson]

Of course people can have an alternative view. That doesn't mean that I must agree with them.

And you may notice that if people do disagree with me and put points against what I believe, I answer those questions. I am not blind. I can read. Some people agree with me. Some don't. That is entirely their prerogative.

What I don't do is say to posters "You disagree with me, you can fuck off" or "I'm not going to answer your questions unless you agree with me" like others on here.

[fatmick]

That is true...you just repeat yourself over...and over...and over... and over

[David Johnson]

"It is my understanding that you are not a resident of Scotland and therefore not entitled to vote on this issue?"

Correct, Neither am I a Liverpool supporter or related to any of the Hillsborough dead, but that shouldn't ban me from having a view on the topic of the Hillsborough disaster

And if you are about to argue that means Scottish independence is nothing to do with me, the situation in which Salmond is insisting on a currency union with the remainder of the UK very much does have an impact on me.

[David Johnson]

That is because some people on this thread repeat the same views over and over and over and over again based on no evidence whatsoever other than what is their opinion.

If they did not repeat the same thing like it was partly the fans fault because there was a lot of them trying to get in, I wouldn't repeat my view again.