Len801 wrote:
> Bunker,
> Since the USA likes to generally release movies to cinema
> theaters and on DVD at pratically the same time across North
> America, a French-language dub/release is usually required,
> which means that 99% of the time the job falls to France.
Hi Lens801,
I agree with most of what you wrote but for this paragraph (and I don't want to start a debate on that, it is not really relevant with porn business).
The dub scene has changed a lot recently and the latest figures show that 60 % of Hollywood movies are dubbed here. Because the talents are able to take an international French accent (which means no obvious accent, and specifically no Paris accent). We don't dub in French Canadian accent but in what we call international French. Also it is cheaper here and very well done. And the dub scene in France has been accused of racism (never using black actors) and other nasty things so Hollywood is sending more movies here. But France and French Canada are still fighting on this issue (among other things).
All this does not change anything to your conclusion. Like you do, I think that most porn is dubbed in France and what is dubbed here has to be minimal. Of all porn I watched, I never heard French Canadian dubs. Maybe it is porn from smaller producers and cheaper productions. Or possibly on adult TV releases where most films are butchered they do a quick French Canadian dub but on DVD I never heard FC dubs.
A general comment re Private
Re: A general comment re Private
Bunker, we're NOT having a heated debate but a very agreeable and courteous discussion.
The Canadians and the French have been battling the dubbing argument for a very long time, with no resolution in sight. The reasons are politrical economial and cultural. It is a lucrative and cultural thing for France to have American and any other type of movie dubbed by its own dubbing industry which has existed since the talkies. French regard cinema as a very cultural thing. French Canada has tried to breach France's domination and monopopy in that field, and they do not like it one bit. In addition the French resist and scorn the way French Canada dubs movies in French (it's a particular type of dialect which the French frown upon). I believe one such effort was THE FLINTSTONES if memory serves me right, but there may be other rare examples. Hollywood is not too crazy to turn over the dubbing to French Canada and slight the larger movie market in France (and other French speaking territories around the world). So even if French Canada may do a French dialogue dub, it will only probvably be circulated within Canada, as the French will refuse to accept it. At least that is my understanding.
The above comments relate to the mainstream cinema (theatrical exhibition and DVD releases). For porn, the picture is even more dismal. Foreign distributors are not going to turn to French Canada to have a French dialogue dub for the average porn movie, considering the number of copies that would be circulated in French Canada. I am not aware that this may have occured on a small or even medium scale and perhaps you can give some examples if my information is incorrect.
Since the conversion of DVD, I believe there are probably lesser titles coming from Germany and other places, and only the odd Pink'o title, Video Marc Dorcel, and odd and ends are being distributed (in French-dubbed versions done in France or by the original producer like Private, and I have no clue where those are done).
The Canadians and the French have been battling the dubbing argument for a very long time, with no resolution in sight. The reasons are politrical economial and cultural. It is a lucrative and cultural thing for France to have American and any other type of movie dubbed by its own dubbing industry which has existed since the talkies. French regard cinema as a very cultural thing. French Canada has tried to breach France's domination and monopopy in that field, and they do not like it one bit. In addition the French resist and scorn the way French Canada dubs movies in French (it's a particular type of dialect which the French frown upon). I believe one such effort was THE FLINTSTONES if memory serves me right, but there may be other rare examples. Hollywood is not too crazy to turn over the dubbing to French Canada and slight the larger movie market in France (and other French speaking territories around the world). So even if French Canada may do a French dialogue dub, it will only probvably be circulated within Canada, as the French will refuse to accept it. At least that is my understanding.
The above comments relate to the mainstream cinema (theatrical exhibition and DVD releases). For porn, the picture is even more dismal. Foreign distributors are not going to turn to French Canada to have a French dialogue dub for the average porn movie, considering the number of copies that would be circulated in French Canada. I am not aware that this may have occured on a small or even medium scale and perhaps you can give some examples if my information is incorrect.
Since the conversion of DVD, I believe there are probably lesser titles coming from Germany and other places, and only the odd Pink'o title, Video Marc Dorcel, and odd and ends are being distributed (in French-dubbed versions done in France or by the original producer like Private, and I have no clue where those are done).
Re: A general comment re Private
I've read the latter part of this thread with a mixture of
fascination, amazement and amusement [img]http://www.egafd.com/forum/smileys/happy.gif[/img]
It's true, "there are more things in Heaven and earth...".
The only conclusion I've been able to draw is that it's not
just the US and UK that are "two nations divided by a
common language" [img]http://www.egafd.com/forum/smileys/tears.gif[/img]
Thanks, both, for sharing your erudition- and I for one
will be much more tolerant in future of ropy dubs.
fascination, amazement and amusement [img]http://www.egafd.com/forum/smileys/happy.gif[/img]
It's true, "there are more things in Heaven and earth...".
The only conclusion I've been able to draw is that it's not
just the US and UK that are "two nations divided by a
common language" [img]http://www.egafd.com/forum/smileys/tears.gif[/img]
Thanks, both, for sharing your erudition- and I for one
will be much more tolerant in future of ropy dubs.
"a harmless drudge, that busies himself in tracing the original, and detailing the
signification...."
signification...."
Re: A general comment re Private
Len801 wrote:
> Bunker, we're NOT having a heated debate but a very agreeable
> and courteous discussion.
>
I agree and that's how I see it. I was just being careful, I have read threads where some people were getting easily overheated (this does not apply to you).
I guess you are right for the dubbing of mainstream moves. Because of my work I have to go to sound studios and one of them does these big mainstream movies. The guys, talents and technicians, told me it is done in international French because it is the version showed everywhere. But I never checked this affirmation. And these guys may not be relieable since it seems that they always have to tell us how good and important they are. That figure (60 % of Hollywood films being dubbed in Montreal) may apply to movies shown in film theaters in the province. Also what you said about the never-ending little struggles between France and French Canada !baby! fits the reality pretty well. So, International French or not, the French would not be happy to put our dubs in their film theaters. I'll try to get relieable infos but what you say seems quite logical.
But there could be exceptions. Recently a weird German-American gross comedy (about some beer drinking contest in Germany during the Oktoberfest) was dubbed with a strong French Canadian accent (which is rare). I guess that this highly intellectual!happy! type of movie, as it was the case for the Flinstones, is something that would be accepted in France.
As for porn business, as I wrote, I never heard anything with a French Canadian accent. And I'd be surprised to hear some. I can't see the industry here (that relies mainly on government money) starting a public fight to get the dubbing of porn movies. !shocked! So there will never be a real porn dubbing industry here. They are all done in France (at least they have the accent of the people of France, or more precisely Paris).
But one thing is sure: some porn is dubbed here. And I am sure also that it is very marginal and count for about nothing, not even .01 %. And porn dubbed here is surely not produced by major companies (European or American). Yet, what this girl is doing has been produced somewhere and is shown somewhere. I would think maybe they are from South America or countries that don't export a big porn production and the movies are done by producers that don't have a well organized distribution network. And where is it shown since I never saw them ? I would think some adult Pay TV... or could it be for internet purposes ? At that level also, I would think that the audience that they reach has to be minimal.
And, back to the Flinstones, to see porn not produced here and to hear the guys speaking with a strong French Canadian accent would sound to me a bit ridiculous, like hearing John Wayne dubbed in Japanese (no offense to anybody).
> Bunker, we're NOT having a heated debate but a very agreeable
> and courteous discussion.
>
I agree and that's how I see it. I was just being careful, I have read threads where some people were getting easily overheated (this does not apply to you).
I guess you are right for the dubbing of mainstream moves. Because of my work I have to go to sound studios and one of them does these big mainstream movies. The guys, talents and technicians, told me it is done in international French because it is the version showed everywhere. But I never checked this affirmation. And these guys may not be relieable since it seems that they always have to tell us how good and important they are. That figure (60 % of Hollywood films being dubbed in Montreal) may apply to movies shown in film theaters in the province. Also what you said about the never-ending little struggles between France and French Canada !baby! fits the reality pretty well. So, International French or not, the French would not be happy to put our dubs in their film theaters. I'll try to get relieable infos but what you say seems quite logical.
But there could be exceptions. Recently a weird German-American gross comedy (about some beer drinking contest in Germany during the Oktoberfest) was dubbed with a strong French Canadian accent (which is rare). I guess that this highly intellectual!happy! type of movie, as it was the case for the Flinstones, is something that would be accepted in France.
As for porn business, as I wrote, I never heard anything with a French Canadian accent. And I'd be surprised to hear some. I can't see the industry here (that relies mainly on government money) starting a public fight to get the dubbing of porn movies. !shocked! So there will never be a real porn dubbing industry here. They are all done in France (at least they have the accent of the people of France, or more precisely Paris).
But one thing is sure: some porn is dubbed here. And I am sure also that it is very marginal and count for about nothing, not even .01 %. And porn dubbed here is surely not produced by major companies (European or American). Yet, what this girl is doing has been produced somewhere and is shown somewhere. I would think maybe they are from South America or countries that don't export a big porn production and the movies are done by producers that don't have a well organized distribution network. And where is it shown since I never saw them ? I would think some adult Pay TV... or could it be for internet purposes ? At that level also, I would think that the audience that they reach has to be minimal.
And, back to the Flinstones, to see porn not produced here and to hear the guys speaking with a strong French Canadian accent would sound to me a bit ridiculous, like hearing John Wayne dubbed in Japanese (no offense to anybody).
Re: A general comment re Private
Bunker, while France may be quite "culturally" interested in French Canadian cinema and has invited its product at the Cannes Film festival for at least the last 40 years, and has even warmly distributed its movies theatrically (and to a great degree beginning with LE DECLIN DE L'EMPIRE AMERICAIN (1986) (directed by Denys Arcand), when it comes to dubbing of movies exhibited in France to movie theaters and on video (VHS/DVD) unfortunately the niceties are over.
France has a monopoly it does not wish to surrender so easily just to please another French speaking neighbor of the USA. That's the reality. I believe in a previous post you indicated the French Canadian dubbing was 66%. I don't know where that figure comes from (or what product exactly is being dubbed--documentaries, children's material, scholastic, shorts, etc?), but I would be truly astonished if it were true for theatrical feature movies.
The USA distributors may not essentially care who does the dubbing since all they care about is getting their product out on time. You see, the USA movie industry considers the North American market as "domestic". It encopasses both the US and Canadian territory for box office receipts. That's the formula that has existed for quite some time now.
Since movies released to theaters and on DVD occurs just about the same time in the USA and Canada, the US absolutely needs to get a French-dubbed print out on time. Who will deliver it? France wants the (only) one to do it, while French Canada can probably do it cheaper and quicker. The French resent it, and refuse to accept that dub if and when the movie is distributed in France in cinema theaters or on video (TV broadcast, etc).
I believe that both the 1994 live action theatrical movie version (as well as the 2000 sequel, THE FLINTSTONES IN VIVA ROCK VEGAS) and many episodes of the THE FLINTSTONES TV cartoons were dubbed in French Canada with that particular French Canadian slang. It may sound humorous, but not that intelligible or pleasing to the French people.
While French Canada pretty well assures (by stringent legislation) that mainstream movies are released to cinema theaters and on DVD with a French track, the same is not true for porn product. American distributors release their porn movies in Canada with ONLY the original english soundrack, and foreign movies which basically come from France, Italy and Germany are usually released in whatever version they are submitted in (French, English, German). Early Private movies either came with an English or French track (sometimes with a running commentary by a female voiceover), and more recent product contain several language dubs.
So basically, there is really no need in the present video and porn environment to have French Canada do any type of French dialogue dub of porn movies coming from anywhere. I believe that is the reality of the movie business (both mainstream and porn) in France and in Canada.
France has a monopoly it does not wish to surrender so easily just to please another French speaking neighbor of the USA. That's the reality. I believe in a previous post you indicated the French Canadian dubbing was 66%. I don't know where that figure comes from (or what product exactly is being dubbed--documentaries, children's material, scholastic, shorts, etc?), but I would be truly astonished if it were true for theatrical feature movies.
The USA distributors may not essentially care who does the dubbing since all they care about is getting their product out on time. You see, the USA movie industry considers the North American market as "domestic". It encopasses both the US and Canadian territory for box office receipts. That's the formula that has existed for quite some time now.
Since movies released to theaters and on DVD occurs just about the same time in the USA and Canada, the US absolutely needs to get a French-dubbed print out on time. Who will deliver it? France wants the (only) one to do it, while French Canada can probably do it cheaper and quicker. The French resent it, and refuse to accept that dub if and when the movie is distributed in France in cinema theaters or on video (TV broadcast, etc).
I believe that both the 1994 live action theatrical movie version (as well as the 2000 sequel, THE FLINTSTONES IN VIVA ROCK VEGAS) and many episodes of the THE FLINTSTONES TV cartoons were dubbed in French Canada with that particular French Canadian slang. It may sound humorous, but not that intelligible or pleasing to the French people.
While French Canada pretty well assures (by stringent legislation) that mainstream movies are released to cinema theaters and on DVD with a French track, the same is not true for porn product. American distributors release their porn movies in Canada with ONLY the original english soundrack, and foreign movies which basically come from France, Italy and Germany are usually released in whatever version they are submitted in (French, English, German). Early Private movies either came with an English or French track (sometimes with a running commentary by a female voiceover), and more recent product contain several language dubs.
So basically, there is really no need in the present video and porn environment to have French Canada do any type of French dialogue dub of porn movies coming from anywhere. I believe that is the reality of the movie business (both mainstream and porn) in France and in Canada.
Re: A general comment re Private
Sorry for one link in French only, I could not find the infos it gives in English.
Len801 wrote:
> Bunker, ...when it comes to dubbing of movies
> exhibited in France to movie theaters and on video (VHS/DVD)
> unfortunately the niceties are over.
> France has a monopoly it does not wish to surrender so easily
> just to please another French speaking neighbor of the USA.
> That's the reality.
In my previous post I agreed with you on that. I will add that it is normal that France wants to keep its industry rolling. I have no problem with that.
I believe in a previous post you indicated
> the French Canadian dubbing was 66%. I don't know where that
> figure comes from (or what product exactly is being
> dubbed--documentaries, children's material, scholastic, shorts,
> etc?), but I would be truly astonished if it were true for
> theatrical feature movies.
I wrote that it is 60 % of Hollywood movies shown in film theaters in the province of Quebec. Not documentaries or chidren shows or shorts but Hollywood mega-productions. Here is a link about this with that number (in fact it is 58 % (in 1998) not 60 % of Hollywood productions). In this link is a study from the Canadian government explaining why FC dubs are not shown in France. Both countries have a law that says dubs have to be done in their respective countries.
I found this link in English that says about 78 % of movies in 2006 were dubbed here.
> The USA distributors may not essentially care who does the
> dubbing since all they care about is getting their product out
> on time. You see, the USA movie industry considers the North
> American market as "domestic". It encopasses both the US and
> Canadian territory for box office receipts. That's the formula
> that has existed for quite some time now.
These links aboce show that they don't have the choice. Now, this film dubbing policy in FC was won by politicians against Hollywood and, as everything that is politics, it may change rapidly and, I guess, everything would then go back to France.
> So basically, there is really no need in the present video and
> porn environment to have French Canada do any type of French
> dialogue dub of porn movies coming from anywhere. I believe
> that is the reality of the movie business (both mainstream and
> porn) in France and in Canada.
The is no porn dubbing industry here and I agree that there is no use for it and it would make no sense. The fight for mainstream dubbing is lead by politicians (the industry is too weak to have any chance of winning) and politicians won?t fight for a porn dubbing industry. Nobody is asking for it and nobody complains about that. Porn dubs here is a very very marginal thing done for some reason I don?t know. But I do know that I never heard any so it has to be minimal (production and distribution-wise).
while France may be quite "culturally" interested in
> French Canadian cinema and has invited its product at the
> Cannes Film festival for at least the last 40 years, and has
> even warmly distributed its movies theatrically (and to a great
> degree beginning with LE DECLIN DE L'EMPIRE AMERICAIN (1986)
> (directed by Denys Arcand)...
I'll end with your beginning. I agree with you about France's help to FC cultural products and we appreciate that. But I found it sad that now we cannot do the reverse. Up to the end of the 80s we used to see France?s movies (Italian and German too) in our films theaters and people loved to go and see Noiret, Piccoli, Deneuve, Adjani or Truffaut and Miller?s films, etc (or Ettore Scola?s movies, and Mastroianni and Lanzmann or Herzog and Fassbinder?s movies) but now none is shown anynore. Besides Asterix and some odd exceptions no movies from France in our film theaters, and absolutely no Italian or German movies but rare exceptions. Only Almodovar breaks the American monoopoly. All theaters are part of networks that belong to Americans and they have to show all their second rated movies unless they don?t get the big hits. So there is no place to show these movies but for some marginal independantly owned theaters where only real cinema lovers go to. That is much more sad than porn not being dubbed here and politicians should fight about that.
Len801 wrote:
> Bunker, ...when it comes to dubbing of movies
> exhibited in France to movie theaters and on video (VHS/DVD)
> unfortunately the niceties are over.
> France has a monopoly it does not wish to surrender so easily
> just to please another French speaking neighbor of the USA.
> That's the reality.
In my previous post I agreed with you on that. I will add that it is normal that France wants to keep its industry rolling. I have no problem with that.
I believe in a previous post you indicated
> the French Canadian dubbing was 66%. I don't know where that
> figure comes from (or what product exactly is being
> dubbed--documentaries, children's material, scholastic, shorts,
> etc?), but I would be truly astonished if it were true for
> theatrical feature movies.
I wrote that it is 60 % of Hollywood movies shown in film theaters in the province of Quebec. Not documentaries or chidren shows or shorts but Hollywood mega-productions. Here is a link about this with that number (in fact it is 58 % (in 1998) not 60 % of Hollywood productions). In this link is a study from the Canadian government explaining why FC dubs are not shown in France. Both countries have a law that says dubs have to be done in their respective countries.
I found this link in English that says about 78 % of movies in 2006 were dubbed here.
> The USA distributors may not essentially care who does the
> dubbing since all they care about is getting their product out
> on time. You see, the USA movie industry considers the North
> American market as "domestic". It encopasses both the US and
> Canadian territory for box office receipts. That's the formula
> that has existed for quite some time now.
These links aboce show that they don't have the choice. Now, this film dubbing policy in FC was won by politicians against Hollywood and, as everything that is politics, it may change rapidly and, I guess, everything would then go back to France.
> So basically, there is really no need in the present video and
> porn environment to have French Canada do any type of French
> dialogue dub of porn movies coming from anywhere. I believe
> that is the reality of the movie business (both mainstream and
> porn) in France and in Canada.
The is no porn dubbing industry here and I agree that there is no use for it and it would make no sense. The fight for mainstream dubbing is lead by politicians (the industry is too weak to have any chance of winning) and politicians won?t fight for a porn dubbing industry. Nobody is asking for it and nobody complains about that. Porn dubs here is a very very marginal thing done for some reason I don?t know. But I do know that I never heard any so it has to be minimal (production and distribution-wise).
while France may be quite "culturally" interested in
> French Canadian cinema and has invited its product at the
> Cannes Film festival for at least the last 40 years, and has
> even warmly distributed its movies theatrically (and to a great
> degree beginning with LE DECLIN DE L'EMPIRE AMERICAIN (1986)
> (directed by Denys Arcand)...
I'll end with your beginning. I agree with you about France's help to FC cultural products and we appreciate that. But I found it sad that now we cannot do the reverse. Up to the end of the 80s we used to see France?s movies (Italian and German too) in our films theaters and people loved to go and see Noiret, Piccoli, Deneuve, Adjani or Truffaut and Miller?s films, etc (or Ettore Scola?s movies, and Mastroianni and Lanzmann or Herzog and Fassbinder?s movies) but now none is shown anynore. Besides Asterix and some odd exceptions no movies from France in our film theaters, and absolutely no Italian or German movies but rare exceptions. Only Almodovar breaks the American monoopoly. All theaters are part of networks that belong to Americans and they have to show all their second rated movies unless they don?t get the big hits. So there is no place to show these movies but for some marginal independantly owned theaters where only real cinema lovers go to. That is much more sad than porn not being dubbed here and politicians should fight about that.
Re: A general comment re Private
jj wrote:
>
> The only conclusion I've been able to draw is that it's not
> just the US and UK that are "two nations divided by a
> common language"
>
>
>
I did not know you have the same discussions between UK and USA. Does that proove that all human beings are the same ??? !grin!
>
> The only conclusion I've been able to draw is that it's not
> just the US and UK that are "two nations divided by a
> common language"
>
>
>
I did not know you have the same discussions between UK and USA. Does that proove that all human beings are the same ??? !grin!
-
Bad Samaritan
- Posts: 931
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: A general comment re Private
Sorry but what is "French Canada"? Isn't the locality referred to primarily and effectively Qu?b?c? Wikip?dia says it's an obsolete term: "...autrefois appel?es "Canada fran?ais" avant la R?volution tranquille au Qu?bec des ann?es 1960." Or is it the current PC terminology vis-?-vis English Canada / Canada anglais?
hosça bak zâtina kim zübde-i âlemsin sen
merdüm-i dîde-i ekvân olan âdemsin sen
merdüm-i dîde-i ekvân olan âdemsin sen
Re: A general comment re Private
French Canada would usually mean the province Quebec, and possibly any Canadian province where there is a significant number of French-speaking population, like New Brunswick. For all intents and purposes Quebec is the most populated and French speaking province in the whole of Canada, with the most liberal cinema rating board. A lot of Hollywood movies have been shot in Quebec for the last 30 years (as well as in Ontario, and to a lesser extent in Alberta where its landscape has been used for Hollywood westerns). Clearly governor Arnold does not appreciate Hollywood movies being shot elsewhere but in his own state, and has been pressuring major studios to shoot locally. If you read the trade papers (like the weekly-daily"Variety"), Toronto and Montreal have been battling it out for the last few years over its two major film festivals which practically overlap in the fall of each year, and Hollywood films and performers seems to prefer the Toronto one for a variety of reasons as a lanching pad for fall features.
The Province of Quebec also produces porn movies on a very small scale mostly for domestic consumption. A number of Quebec starlets have migrated to the USA for a more significant porn career (Diamond 4Ever, Patricia Petite, Judy Star just to mention a few). Evil Angel and Anabolic have shot some of their movies in Quebec for some time now.
The Province of Quebec also produces porn movies on a very small scale mostly for domestic consumption. A number of Quebec starlets have migrated to the USA for a more significant porn career (Diamond 4Ever, Patricia Petite, Judy Star just to mention a few). Evil Angel and Anabolic have shot some of their movies in Quebec for some time now.
Re: A general comment re Private
It's a quote commonly [but not definitively] attributed to
George Bernard Shaw.
Although it refers to the US and Britain, more relevant to
your point [which in general I think is true] might be this,
definitely Shavian, quote on our stupid class-system:
"It is impossible for an Englishman to open his mouth without
making some other Englishman hate or despise him." [img]http://www.egafd.com/forum/smileys/grin.gif[/img]
George Bernard Shaw.
Although it refers to the US and Britain, more relevant to
your point [which in general I think is true] might be this,
definitely Shavian, quote on our stupid class-system:
"It is impossible for an Englishman to open his mouth without
making some other Englishman hate or despise him." [img]http://www.egafd.com/forum/smileys/grin.gif[/img]
"a harmless drudge, that busies himself in tracing the original, and detailing the
signification...."
signification...."