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Reggie, in fairness I don't think anyone would equate you to being you're average dole scrounger.

Presumably at some point you weren't on it beacuse you decided to do something which is the whole point.

A fair point

It's natural to feel aggrieved, mcfister. I don't blame anyone for that.

But seriously, what can we do? Prison would cost the state more.

I myself was brought up in pretty rough districts, and seen certain families who seem to spend their life dodging the coppers, signing on and basically being a nuisance. Even the ones that never had jobs, though, weren't 'idle'. It always amazed me how some would get up at the crack of dawn and go around nicking scrap metal for 12 hours a day, only to get 60 quid between four of them. They'd earn a ton more getting a real job but for reasons I can't fathom they fuck about in life and whatever money they do make they end up paying back in fines and such forth when occasionally caught. They're mad but no matter what help and encouragement given they go about their own way in life doing the same old thing.

How come no upper and middle class kids ever grow up to be dole scroungers? Why is it overwhelmingly poor people that fall into a cycle of scrounging and idleness? The circumstances and environment they're brought up in must be a big factor here.

I'm not saying they should be left to do what the fuck they want. I just think taking their money away will only hurt genuine people who find themselves without a job, and the scroungers will more than likely turn to more skulduggery to get through their days. And shaming people who have no pride in themselves anyway won't change a thing; I think it will just create an even stronger 'us against the world' attitude.

Let's be honest, some peope just have shit genes, and they seemingly aspire to freeloading off others to the max. Second or third generation offspring of hardcore idle dole scum are never gonna amount to anything, and would be neutered at birth in a perfect world.

I don't know about amounting to anything. If you felt you'd be no good at anything due to a hopeless, helpless upbringing then maybe it's just the case of giving them the correct tuition and encouragement early enough.

I'm sure if you took a baby from the roughest, idlest family from the neighbourhood and placed it in the hands of a loving, wise middle-class couple it would grow up differently. If so it's more nurture than nature.

Of course, not all poorly-loved, dragged-up kids grow up to terrorise and leech of others so I guess it's how some react to the upbringing.

I do blame government too.Cameron's point about lack of financial incentive was quite correct .Also despite what the ads will propagandise thousands get away with housing benefit scams.