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Dibble, in your post you show your usual disdain for working class people (or chavs as you like to call them). Every "prol" (should be spelt prole) cares about nothing more than being like posh & becks huh? Scratch the surface and you'll find much more interesting points of view - but then you wouldn't be seen dead hanging with the "chavs" now, would you?

While I don't find it insulting for Mike (a person I've met and like) to call me an intellectual, he's a little far from the truth. My formal education ended 22 years back when I left a very rough, inner-London comprehensive. Every penny I've ever spent was earned by me. I have at least as much disdain for Islington-dwelling Tuscany-holidaying middle-class liberals as you seem to.

I have strong political views and like a good debate, but I think political action speaks louder than words. I was involved in the physical fight to sweep the NF scum off the streets of Britain (just as my grandfather was involved in fighting Moseley's blackshirts) and I look forward to seeing the BNP and other assorted racist/bigoted scum go the same way.

You're proud of your ignorance like a chimpanzee proudly displays the fleas it picks off its arse.

Mike,

Your idea sounds morally right, however how far back do we go? We are so thoroughly mixed between Viking, Norse, Saxon, Celt etc that we'd probably all have little chunks of land in Ireland, Wales, Scotland, England, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Germany, Holland and France.....oh & maybe a little shack somewhere outside Rome !happy!

I once saw a programme last year on tv about a black guy from Birmingham trying to get support for his crusade to get compansation from our government for monies owed his 'great great grandparents' for work they did, -without pay- during the slavery period. Sounds fair enough but how can he prove that every relative of his was a slave? What if half his relatives were African imigrants who came here -of their own accord- looking for work during the late Victorian period?

Lets not forget that it was blacks that captured other blacks to sell to the Europeans 90% of the time, not Europeans trouncing off into the jungle by themselves with the ball & chains at the ready. So by his morals, he may also be looking to sue his own wife, who's ancestors may have captured and traded his own ancestors. Hell he himself may have had ancestors whom were the capturers and the slaves at different times, so he'd have to sue himself!

The trouble is everything isn't so black & white (excuse the pun !laugh!), but multiple shades of grey and every other colour in between. Everyone in Europe would probably have a right to a little peice of land in just about every other country.

Just think of all the Yanks & Canadians having to come back over to Europe because the native indians had reclaimed all the land! England would have an awsome cricket team though, what with the Ozzies coming home !grin!

Dibble,

A lot of those Normans are still around and remain in great positions of power. Land and property have remained in the hands of the gentry to such an extent that the people cannot walk freely across their own country.

The dream is a peice of land for all where the Englishman's home is his
castle.We can protect ourselves. Let the heroes return honour, truth and justice.
Mike Freeman'

Sam,
Yes "little chunks of land" that is exactly wehat we want!

Let us keep this debate confined to England and GB for the purpose of this debate. Even though you are right that unscrupulous and immoral brothers captured the fittest and best of their warriors and sold them thus earning money and getting rid of the troublemakers in one foul swoop! Remember all Jamaicans are descended from slaves.

There would be enough land for all . Let them return to England as the Irish have returned to the Irish Republic welcome with open arms. Let them bring their riches and skills with them
Mike Freeman

Strictly,
Let our proletarian warriors sweep the racist scum from the streets of our country. No more !adolf!s
Mike Freeman.

Julie,
Are you there. Are you gay as the people have been told by the media?
Mike Freeman.

Ahh but the real english are the celtic tribes of Wales & Ireland who were pushed further & further west by each invasion. So whichever bit of land you did get back, you'd get back knowing your ancestors stole it through pillaging, murder & rape!

Like you said Mikey boy, 'time doesn't make a theft right'. !grin!

Officer infers that the person is a member of the upper classes. As an officer what physical courage has Dibble shown leading others in battle?
Mike Freeman.

?Dibble, in your post you show your usual disdain for working class people (or chavs as you like to call them).?

?Distain?? either you have totally misinterpreted the quite clear thrust of my post or this is a startlingly inept and desperate attempt to turn the whole thing around on me? Nowhere in this post do I show distain for working folks. Working folks are my folks, I was born a northern industrial slum and my father was a foundry man in the local steel mill. On the contrary, far from being disdainful of the proletariat, the whole thing is a moderately vitriolic, anti-middleclass rant. A rant aimed squarely at the way the middleclass use the proletariat to justify their stupid, unrealistic, airy fairy political philosophy?s and gain absolution for their poncy middleclass guilt while, unconsciously, looking down on working folk and even being contemptuous of them.

Now, you imply my ?distain? in this instance is due to me suggesting that working folks would like nothing more than to have a very nice gaff and some really tasty motors to tool about in? So, how am I being disdainful? Is there, perchance, something wrong in those aspirations? Have I cruelly misjudged my fellow prols? Do they all in fact aspire to nothing more than spiritual enlightenment and fulfillment? Do they have a higher calling? Are they all ready to forgo the base pleasures of bling, of Sky Sports, Tenerife, and McDonalds to take the winding path of self-discovery into the balmy foothills of Nirvana? A place of calm and contentment where they can wander though groves of fragrant Jasmine at peace with themselves, their fellow man, and the cosmos in general? Oh dear. How could I have been so blind and insensitive? So, all those millions of working folk who do the National Lottery every week are in fact just hoping to win enough for a plane ticket to Tibet, a couple of prayer wheels, and half a dozen colored robes?... Well I never. You learn something every day. Who would have thought it, eh?

And what about ?chavs?? All I can say is - Sir, t?was not I who introduced chavs into this thread. I have conspicuously avoided mention of them. Of course it?s quite clear to me why you have added them to the mix ? in your frantic efforts to compile a credible riposte you flailed around until you thought, ?I know, I?ll accuse Dibble of being beastly to chavs. He?s always doing that and one or two forumites get annoyed about it. Maybe I can tap into that annoyance to get me out of this sticky situation and onto another subject?? Ha, ha! I can read you like a book, Jeremiah.

As for me not wanting to been seen dead with the chavs, on the contrary, I often pop into Burger King, before going to see my mum and old friends on the council estate where I grew up. Sometimes I even go attired in a rather debonair Addidas tracksuit. I?m well cool with urban chic and the zeitgeist of the street.

So, you went to a rough inner London Comp did ya? Where was it then, Fulham, Kensington or Chelsea? Or maybe it was that gaff where our Tone sends his kids? Was it a tough life back them, Jerry? Did your father scold you if you didn?t eat up your broccoli? Didn?t your mother ever come to the school to escort you home after violin practice? Oh dear, I can certainly see how a life of such misery, struggle, and hardship would have sown the seeds of socialism in one so young, spirited, and aware. Yes indeedy. You know, it?s a fascinating phenomenon, that of privileged middleclass kids wanting to (naively) identify with 'the less fortunate? ?the underprivileged? 'the disaffected? and the proletariat. I guess it?s partly down the natural rebelliousness of youth ? wanting to take a totally opposite point of view to your sensible parents. Partly down to middleclass guilt over their easy life with caring, supportive, parents who went out of their way to see that their children got the very best education. Partly down to atonement for all that, and partly 'cause you just though it would be cool! And hey, if you didn?t like it you could always go back home to mummsy and a nice Parma ham ?n? ciabatia roll, with wild rocket and an olive oil dressing, hey?

Regarding political actions speaking louder than words ? I agree. I myself was once thinking of infiltrating the Labour Party Conference and at an opportune moment leaping out and custard pieing Patricia Hewitt, as I spat out the oath ? ?Cop for that yer patronising middleclass cow! That?s for all the many working folk you?ve ever spoken down to!?

When it comes to racism and the BNP you profess to abhor them, yet ironically it?s is you and people like you who are driving working folk into the arms of the BNP. You?re pissing ordinary people off by bending over backwards to accommodate the whims, fancies, and cultural imperatives of ethnic minorities and economic migrants. This is clearly far, far, more important to you than dealing with the problems and concerns of the indigenous population - the folks and their families who built this nation, who created the wealth to pay your (usually) public sector wages and underwrite your guaranteed pensions. Yet when an ordinary person has the temerity to question this iniquity you jump up and down like loons, like crazed zealots, screaming ?Racist! Racist!?. And when someone - possibly a journalist, as you can?t dismiss journalists as racists like you can simple working folk - draws serious ethnic shortcomings to the public?s attention, you cover your ears and breakout into a jaunty chorus of ?We?ll keep the red flag flying?. What a set of irrational, head in the cloud, loonies you are. No wonder folks are getting pissed off with ya? and drifting off to extremist parties.

Hey, Jerry. I?m quite sure you?re a decent, sincere, chap. But get this mi old pal. Us prols don?t want any poncy middleclass politics - we just want yer money!


Officer Dibble




P. S. A word on forum etiquette. Whether it?s prol or ?prole? doesn?t matter in the context of this debate, as it?s not a debate about spelling or grammar. We don?t normally draw attention to such minor errors, as even the best of us make them from time to time. It?s usually quite clear from the context of what is being said what the poster really meant. Highlighting these kinds of trivialities can often derail a debate or facilitate it going off at a tangent? Oh, sorry, Jerry. I see... I didn?t realise that?s what you wanted it to do. Silly me.