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Officer Dibble wrote:

> HA HA HA! Check it out. Labour MP gets thugged over and robbed
> by a gang of pikey chavs (known as 'neds' in Scotland). That'll
> fuckin' teach her to respect their rights and bung 'em bigger
> benefits! Ha ha ha!

So - does she have a corresponding track record in that area that motivates your glee, or do you simply hate all Labour MPs by affiliation?

"On average, Stewie, you cannot blame one's morals and behaviour on the grandparents.

Stronger sentences would indeed mean less criminals on the streets, but wouldn't that mean more prisons and thus paying more tax? Who are the people that will complain loudest about paying more tax? The rich of course..."

I wasn't suggesting that the chavs in question are influenced by their grandparents, but their parents. Who in turn would have been raised by their parents and so on ad infinitum. I was arguing that your point about their morals coming from Tory Britain was flawed - as everyone is influenced by parents regardless of when they were born.

It would mean more criminals off the streets - and although I am anything but rich, I would happily pay 2p or 3p more in the ? if it meant I could live safely in my community and I can't imagine a single person who would complain at that.

I wouldn't say 'flawed' in the strictest sense. Any serious philosopher on morality knows that it ebbs and flows from generation to generation, culture to culture, and even family to family. It's not as flawed as blaming the current government for creating crime (you didn't but mr hungwell did).

We all know -or at least should do by now- that we don't commit crimes because we'd get punished by law & order; we refrain from committing serious crimes because our inner morals tell us they're wrong. Ask a child psychologist on morality and they'll tell you we learn the big stuff -do unto others as you yourself would want to be done etc- is learnt by aged 5.

I wasn't trying to pin the blame solely on the Tory governments of yesteryear, only that they do have a massive responsibility for the creation of today's morality and crime.

Tories, Old Labour, NuLabour... not a great of difference between 'em as far as this subject goes. All of them 'ape' their American 'superiors' and thus lies the crux of the problem. 'Ain't No Love In The Heart Of The City'
Morality in the UK broke down a long time and has got progressively worse, and the blame lays with our slavish appropriation of all things American - we've basically adopted the US way of crime and all the 'cool' aspects such as knife & gun totin' gangs, self-regulating minority groups & an unhealthy disrespect for others. Modern 'yoof' is lost in a sea of pointlessness in a world of never-ending consumer obselence & very little 'meaning' bereft of respect & real love. One can only expect the ever-growing army of youngsters tumbling out of today's 'Jeremy Kyler's' to be even worse, definite walking timebombs.

Of course, in defence of Dibble and others who find the irony of the NuLabour MP getting a bashing from some yobs, all politicians are playing a game with crime which makes it satisfying when they are well & truly victims themselves - whichever party we are talking about, all of them like to use 'CRIME' as something to big up ('You need US, we will tough on crime tough on the causes of crime') whilst simultaneously talking it down when they want to. In short crime is a big industry for them - it can be used in electioneering and to reassure, and of course the ever-rising tide of violence is a pretty excellent way to control us all too (knife crime & terrorism being ingenious in that respect)