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I worked 60-66 hours a week, alternating shifts for 5 years straight between 20 and 25 and 50 hours a week thereafter until I gave it up. I was trebling the wages of all my mates and thought it was great but I never had the time to spend any of it and missed a big chunk of my youth. I know enough of the 'real world', if you want to call it that, and I know what you're saying.

Sam Slater wrote:

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Sweet Jesus Sam. You do like to argue the toss just for toss-arguing's sake don't you?

Apply that "logic" and you could argue that hot running water is a "luxury" and not "a necessity". Or the telephone. Or electricity. Or even the wheel itself, if you want to go back that far and take it to extremes.

After all, we got by perfectly well for centuries without them didn't we? And if we woke up tomorrow to find them all magically gone, I'm sure we'd muddle by and adapt, once we'd got over the initial shock.

You don't even know what DM does for a living, he's explained to you that his work is 13 miles away from where he lives and that public transport is crap - and yet you're still insisting that his conveyance is just a "luxury".

What may be classed as a "luxury" on Planet Slater - where everyone appears to hug trees, travel by bus and wear hair shirts - may well be a necessity to someone else. You can't just generalise and say that X is a luxury but Y isn't. People's personal circumstances vary a lot.

- Eric

[quote]Apply that "logic" and you could argue that hot running water is a "luxury" and not "a necessity". Or the telephone. Or electricity. Or even the wheel itself, if you want to go back that far and take it to extremes.[/quote]

I don't think wheels and telephones are causing global warming Eric but I accept your point. Applying the logic I've set out does indeed make these things 'luxuries'. Reducing the number of car journeys and watching the power we use, though, is a more sensible approach, and will be more affective than turning off running water.

[quote]You don't even know what DM does for a living, he's explained to you that his work is 13 miles away from where he lives and that public transport is crap - and yet you're still insisting that his conveyance is just a "luxury".[/quote]

To be fair I think I've made clear more than once that I empathise with his position. His car is only necessary to keep up his current level of comfort. I don't begrudge him that but it doesn't magically make his car a necessity. He has a choice, which is more than a lot of people get. That's all I'm saying. But I do think I've become a little sidetracked with Mr. Moby. Like I've already said, I'm not expecting him to change his life drastically, it's just this 'I need my car' attitude everyone has these days when 20% of all car journeys are under 5 miles. It's not really Dick's circumstances that I have an issue with but that attitude I mention.

[quote]What may be classed as a "luxury" on Planet Slater - where everyone appears to hug trees, travel by bus and wear hair shirts[/quote]

You're so hurtful at times, Eric. You'll be glad to know that I agree with you (so you don't have to start getting abusive like last time....hee hee). Sadly, a lot of car journeys are just the product of laziness rather than necessity, and it's this that is contributing to, unnecessarily, to global warming.

Hey, Eric, while you're here can you shed light on something for us? If cars give you an extra 20 mins in bed in a morning, stop you getting cold and wet at the bus stop, and keeps you away from ne're-do-wells on public transport, how come drivers are usually the angriest, most miserable cunts on the roads?

Ta.

Sam Slater wrote:

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I wouldn't disagree with you Sam if your argument is that a certain percentage of car journies are indeed unnecessary (although how to define "necessary"?).

That's fair enough, and I'd have to concur. But just to sweepingly contend that "the car is a luxury" (full stop) is a bit silly, I think, if that's your tack.



Sam Slater wrote:

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Again Sam, I think you're painting with too broad a brush. I mean - I'm a car driver. Surely you're not suggesting that I'm a miserable cunt, are you? And you talk about ME being hurtful, LOL.

No but seriously - that's a good question. And there might be all manner of factors at play. It could for example have something to do with being forced into one lane along routes into town at peak times, because the other lane has been turned into a dedicated bus lane with about one bus using it every three hours (okay a bit of an exaggeration, but hopefully you get my point). Or because of all those dozy twats on pushbikes who hurtle out of side roads in front of them, or run red lights, or wear dark clothes while riding bikes without lights at night, or pull other similar kamikaze stunts just because they can.

Or maybe you're just mixing with the wrong sort of car driver? Because most drivers I know are paragons of patience, good manners and consideration towards their fellow man!

And in any case, just imagine how miserable they'd all be if they *didn't* get those extra 20 minutes in bed!

- Eric

Sweeping about car drivers? Me? Ok, it was a little but in my defence I've never seen anyone with a 'hair shirt' in my life! I actually googled it.

I know what you mean about bus lanes and one ways. I live on Hillsborough, remember. Hillsborough corner is a nightmare.....unless you are sensible and get the tram with all the young nurses going to work in a morning. Very therapeutic.