R18 restrictions

[DavidS]

Has anyone any views on whether the restrictions placed on what can be shown in R18's are sound. In other words, does anyone know if the lack of such restrictions in other countries has caused any significant problems?

[Paul Tavener]

The restrictions placed on R18 are about as sound as a chocolate fireguard. Research from abroad indicates that sexual repression is responsible for more ?harm? than anything porn can provide as can be seen from the research from Milton Diamond concerning Japan:
http://www.ofwatch.org.uk/research/Rese ... 040126.htm

Unfortunately despite what the authorities say, harm has nothing to do with it. One problem is the law - OPA/VRA BBFC etc but another is public opinion. Of course public opinion should have no bearing on private use (legality) only on public display/offence. But it does, and the further and faster things move the greater the risk of an episode of moral panic - public unease and ignorance whipped up into frenzy by the Mediawatchers and the papers. That?s what happened way back in 1984 with the video nasty scare.

There are no restrictions on any type of porn in Denmark execting child porn and the Danes have a much lowwer incidence of rape and sexual assult than we do.

[Bruce Barnard]

Paul,

Whilst I?m fully supportive of your aims, using the Danish example as a shining beacon of free sexual expression is problematic. People may be shocked to discover that the Danish government only restricted the distribution of child pornography in the early eighties, until then no action was taken against the large amount of paedophilic material which was readily available in the country.

This is one of the major reasons why the oft repeated libel (?pornography puts all children at harm?) is still used by organisations like Media Watch. In fact, John Beyers, the current chairman of the nations moral guardians dropped that very quote during a deeply uncomfortable lunch I had with him in London recently.

When Shakespeare wrote that ?something is rotten in the state of Denmark? in Hamlet, he could easily have been talking about the product lining the shelves of their sex shops. Last time I visited it was near impossible to find wholesome smut, as the shelves were groaning under the weight of bestiality and scat material.

Otherwise, keep up the good work.

[joe king]

I think you should be a bit careful with the line 'the large amount of paedophilic material which was readily available in the country'

pg 219 of 'Pornocopia' by Laurence O'Toole talks of 69-79 '...the toleration of a small, commercial output of magazines, as well as some films...'

It also goes on to talk about the USA government being one of the noted producers of child-porn as part of an entrapment plan.

Having lunch with Mr Byers I suppose would be deeply uncomfortable anyway.

Using 'it harms children therefore we should ban it' must be the lowest type of argument.

[Bruce Barnard]

Surely Joe, if a ?small, commercial output of magazines was tolerated? this was just the tip of the iceberg? It?s indefensible regardless of the extent of the material produced. Denmark may have a lengthy and impressive commitment to human rights, especially as these relate to free sexual expression but it?s not all peachy. They may have been the first country to make the leap to legal porn, but they made a number of mistakes along the way.

?Pornocopia? is a great book, but O?Toole could be easily forgiven for not looking under too many rocks during his research on this incendiary topic. I can only speak for myself, I?ve just spent a year writing a book on smut and I can happily confirm that it?s an area I would fear to tread. It reeks of dark places, libel cases and unfair balance, given that it focuses on a criminal activity which plays no part in peoples freedom to fuck. Other writers might well feel the same way, and this could be the very reason why it?s never been covered in any depth.

Beyers may be way wide of the mark in his argument when it comes to ?the protection of children? point, but it is one that always scores with the general public.

As for lunch with the chairman, It was worth the major effort it took me to act the diplomat and not argue his every point, just to witness him utter the phrase ?facial cumshot? with a look of extreme distaste. Weirdly enough like many on this forum, he?s no big fan of the dwarfish Mr Big who controls the UK trade in filth either, the only thing I can think we shared in common.

[Phil mCc]

Great debate again lads. Most people non of which are yous believe Europe is porn legal well its not Belgium for example Pornography has never been made legal, it is kind of decrimalised thus allowing the govermet to sit on the fence. Germany still has 16/18 laws regarding some pornography and its delivery methods. I spoke only two hours ago with a German phone porn company who are bouncing around in anger with what he called their unberable restrictions. Germany restrictions have you seen wiwa stuff.
Demark has the opinion it is so far away no-one can see it. Its like an ostrich. Sweden is pirate full because they think no one goes there....
I speak as someone who has shot/worked and did the famous Sarah Young tour of Scandanavia where they guys smashed video shop doors to get her picture. She appeared on the front cover of the national newspaper and as I remmeber the Danish mafia backed by Albainian thugs ran the country. I found them to be real nice people but thats just me.

Somtimes the grass in not so green, over the fence,

Phil McC

[Paul Tavener]

Bruce, why were you interested in meeting John Beyer? If you don't mind me asking (otherwise I will shut up). I would have thought his interest in R18 / British girls on film etc would have been rather negative to say the least.

[DavidS]

I have little doubt that you are correct Bruce, when you say that Danish shelves are groaning under the weight of bestiality and scat, but surely this stuff only appeals to a limited market. It never ceases to amaze me the amount of scat material available in some countries and I am somewhat surprised there is sufficient demand to justify producing such vast amounts. (Perhaps I could have worded that better!) Given that it is unlikely that all restrictions will be lifted in the UK in the foreseeable future, I would suggest that the overwhealming majority of the industry's customers are happy with the situation now. It is certainly a vast improvement on what was the case prior to R18.

[Bruce Barnard]

Paul,

I interviewed Beyers for a chapter in my book 'Flesh Trade' (due to be published in the Summer)

If you drop me a line you are welcome to have a butchers at the finished article?

Cheers

Bruce