..why all those fact cat industrialists and well-minted luvvies support the Labour party? Doesn?t seem to make sense, does it? I?m mean what?s in it for them, apart from the odd knighthood or cabinet post? Well, maybe this report in yesterday?s Sunday Times (The Rich List issue) sheds some light on the conundrum. Apparently, since NuLabour took over their billion pound fortunes have fair quadrupled, while ordinary folks are pretty much where they were ten years ago.
?The 11 years of Labour have been absolutely fantastic for the super-rich,? said Philip Beresford, compiler of the list. ?Having a friendly Labour government has almost been better than having a Tory one; it has neutered politicians on the left.?
Officer Dibble
Have you ever wondered...
Re: Have you ever wondered...
The poor have actually become WORSE off, Dibs - not just stayed the same.
The middle-earners (i.e. probably most of us here, and indeed the majority of the population) also get well and truly shafted by the Taxman.
It's not just the UK though (although things have undeniably got much worse under NuLabour).
It's pretty much the same here in Germany and in much of the rest of Europe as well - i.e. Joe Soap gets taken to the cleaners, while the fat-cats either hide most of their assets offshore (legally or otherwise) and / or can afford to employ sharp accountants so that they end up paying next to no tax.
Only the Scandinavian countries seem to have anything like a fair tax system - and tellingly, they also have the most coherent, least violent societies with a very high general standard of living.
Personally I'd advocate taxing any and all personal income in excess of, say, GBP 2 or 3 million at something like 95%.
I don't begrudge anyone who works hard a decent wedge. But I ask you - who really NEEDS more than that? That sort of money should be plenty to keep anyone in a decent standard of living and the lap of comfort for life. Anything more is sheer greed.
- Eric
The middle-earners (i.e. probably most of us here, and indeed the majority of the population) also get well and truly shafted by the Taxman.
It's not just the UK though (although things have undeniably got much worse under NuLabour).
It's pretty much the same here in Germany and in much of the rest of Europe as well - i.e. Joe Soap gets taken to the cleaners, while the fat-cats either hide most of their assets offshore (legally or otherwise) and / or can afford to employ sharp accountants so that they end up paying next to no tax.
Only the Scandinavian countries seem to have anything like a fair tax system - and tellingly, they also have the most coherent, least violent societies with a very high general standard of living.
Personally I'd advocate taxing any and all personal income in excess of, say, GBP 2 or 3 million at something like 95%.
I don't begrudge anyone who works hard a decent wedge. But I ask you - who really NEEDS more than that? That sort of money should be plenty to keep anyone in a decent standard of living and the lap of comfort for life. Anything more is sheer greed.
- Eric
Re: Have you ever wondered...
>Personally I'd advocate taxing any and all personal income in excess of, say, GBP 2 or 3 million at something like 95%.
This is what Labour did in the 1960s, and all it did was drive all the business people out of the country to live elsewhere, in tax havens.
Like it or not, it is the rich people who generate jobs.
How many companies that have been started by individuals now employ thousands of people.
High street companies like Tesco, Marks and Spencers, Boots, W H Smiths and so on were all started by individuals or pairs of individuals.
How many UK jobs has Richard Branson created.
Nobody likes it when a GIT like Murdoch makes sure he spends as little time as possible in each country so he pays no tax to anybody, but start taxing people like him and they take their business elsewhere.
This is what Labour did in the 1960s, and all it did was drive all the business people out of the country to live elsewhere, in tax havens.
Like it or not, it is the rich people who generate jobs.
How many companies that have been started by individuals now employ thousands of people.
High street companies like Tesco, Marks and Spencers, Boots, W H Smiths and so on were all started by individuals or pairs of individuals.
How many UK jobs has Richard Branson created.
Nobody likes it when a GIT like Murdoch makes sure he spends as little time as possible in each country so he pays no tax to anybody, but start taxing people like him and they take their business elsewhere.
Re: Have you ever wondered...
Guilbert wrote:
>>
They're doing that anyway though - because labour costs are far cheaper in places like China and India.
I don't dispute that "rich people create jobs" - but the tax system as it stands is grossly unfair. Some sort of overhaul to redress the balance is long overdue.
I don't have the answer to a very complex question, but perhaps the answer would be to tax individual wealth while cutting things like corporation tax in order to boost business and job creation.
- Eric
>>
They're doing that anyway though - because labour costs are far cheaper in places like China and India.
I don't dispute that "rich people create jobs" - but the tax system as it stands is grossly unfair. Some sort of overhaul to redress the balance is long overdue.
I don't have the answer to a very complex question, but perhaps the answer would be to tax individual wealth while cutting things like corporation tax in order to boost business and job creation.
- Eric
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diplodocus
- Posts: 1319
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Have you ever wondered...
sadly enough I was discussing Scandinavian tax with my mate who lives in Norway recently, he did moan a lot about the very high tax and VAT but did say the model works as most of that money goes to fund the impressive welfare system.
hence he says crime is low cos no one needs to go out robbing as the state looks after them, which ultimately he was happy with as it meant a peaceful life
Can't see such a socialist style system ever working here, can you imagine what the likes of Dibble would do if any government said they were raising tax to between 28 and 55% and VAT to 25% to fund a better welfare system!! I think he'd burst
hence he says crime is low cos no one needs to go out robbing as the state looks after them, which ultimately he was happy with as it meant a peaceful life
Can't see such a socialist style system ever working here, can you imagine what the likes of Dibble would do if any government said they were raising tax to between 28 and 55% and VAT to 25% to fund a better welfare system!! I think he'd burst
we are Leeds.... , and we can still beat the mighty Chester
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Sam Slater
- Posts: 11624
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Have you ever wondered...
Europe and the UK are becoming increasingly corporatist. Corporatism will always be the end product of prolonged capitalism where businesses are left with the freedom to expand unhindered.
Governments prop up capitalism, while corporatism props up governments.
Governments prop up capitalism, while corporatism props up governments.
[i]I used to spend a lot of time criticizing Islam on here in the noughties - but things are much better now.[/i]
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diplodocus
- Posts: 1319
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Have you ever wondered...
depnds how you define support, did you read the part about political donations? of the 42 donations over 50k only 8 were labour
we are Leeds.... , and we can still beat the mighty Chester
Re: Have you ever wondered...
I don't know much about the economy Dibbs but out of interest can I ask who Lord Ashcroft is?