As a spotty faced teenager, when I wasn't wanking off to Men Only mags, I loved making stuff on machine tools. Most of them were British made and fantastic quality. As the Asian competition grew in the 70's the British manufacturers tried to compete by cutting quality. The result was crap that still cost more than the Asian imports - and they were getting better.
As we know most of the UK's general engineering works closed years ago and their motor industry is now down to a few specialist makers apart from Land Rover. I was therefore wondering just exactly what kept people fed in the old dart these days?
Wikipedia reckons 73% of Britain's GDP is generated by the services sector with North Sea oil and aerospace stuff from BAE Systems making up a bit extra. I am amazed that the 6th largest economy in the world doesn't really make anything in large amounts anymore.
Mind you, a lot of the old jobs were pretty shitty anyway.
British Economy is Mainly Services
British Economy is Mainly Services
Phwooorr...look at her....CRASH
Re: British Economy is Mainly Services
This government, and the previous one, have installed a system whereby the true level of unemployment is masked, hidden and engineered in a downward level.
Re: British Economy is Mainly Services
'As the Asian competition grew in the 70's the British manufacturers tried to compete by cutting quality'
Is it fairer to say that British manufacturers, rather than cutting quality, kept it at the level where it was (often quite shabby) whereas the Japanese and others who had embraced TQM and suchlike years before Britain were making things that were consistently fit for purpose over the product's life ? Didn't they establish a competitive advantage by being better ?
Is it fairer to say that British manufacturers, rather than cutting quality, kept it at the level where it was (often quite shabby) whereas the Japanese and others who had embraced TQM and suchlike years before Britain were making things that were consistently fit for purpose over the product's life ? Didn't they establish a competitive advantage by being better ?
Re: British Economy is Mainly Services
Certainly with cars, the British had never been known for build quality and reliability. It's interesting however that even today British car designers are still amongst the best anywhere. Its just the manufacturing side that lets them down. In racing the poms are still very good too.
I was talking mainly about engineering tools. Old British lathes, mills and machines generally were simply made to a higher fit and finish 40 years ago. Same story with hand tools. In fact there is quite a market for second hand tools now. Nostalgia might be a factor but quite a few people simply prefer using gear that was designed by people who actually used it themselves rather than some prick with a degree in cost cutting.
The Swiss and Germans still make some beautiful machines that cost a fortune and still sell. I just wish the British would incorporate quality manufacturing as part of a culture of being a modern technological country.
It's shame that an industry that took so much blood, sweat and tears to build up has been allowed to die.
I was talking mainly about engineering tools. Old British lathes, mills and machines generally were simply made to a higher fit and finish 40 years ago. Same story with hand tools. In fact there is quite a market for second hand tools now. Nostalgia might be a factor but quite a few people simply prefer using gear that was designed by people who actually used it themselves rather than some prick with a degree in cost cutting.
The Swiss and Germans still make some beautiful machines that cost a fortune and still sell. I just wish the British would incorporate quality manufacturing as part of a culture of being a modern technological country.
It's shame that an industry that took so much blood, sweat and tears to build up has been allowed to die.
Phwooorr...look at her....CRASH
Re: British Economy is Mainly Services
Deano! wrote:
>
> It's shame that an industry that took so much blood, sweat and
> tears to build up has been allowed to die.
>
>
Deliberately killed in the 1980's, when the mines and steelworks were shut, as the then government expected the economy to run on people selling insurance policies and hamburgers to each other.
>
> It's shame that an industry that took so much blood, sweat and
> tears to build up has been allowed to die.
>
>
Deliberately killed in the 1980's, when the mines and steelworks were shut, as the then government expected the economy to run on people selling insurance policies and hamburgers to each other.
We have need of you again, great king.
Re: British Economy is Mainly Services
Well, we all know who to blame for that.
Idiot unions, and insane Thatcher.
Thanks, guys....
Idiot unions, and insane Thatcher.
Thanks, guys....
"a harmless drudge, that busies himself in tracing the original, and detailing the
signification...."
signification...."
Re: British Economy is Mainly Services
Deano! wrote:
> Certainly with cars, the British had never been known for build
> quality and reliability.
So, you could never afford a Roller, eh?
It's interesting however that even
> today British car designers are still amongst the best
> anywhere. Its just the manufacturing side that lets them down.
> In racing the poms are still very good too.
.... yes- I've seen a Holden : -)
> I was talking mainly about engineering tools. Old British
> lathes, mills and machines generally were simply made to a
> higher fit and finish 40 years ago. Same story with hand tools.
> In fact there is quite a market for second hand tools now.
> Nostalgia might be a factor but quite a few people simply
> prefer using gear that was designed by people who actually used
> it themselves rather than some prick with a degree in cost
> cutting.
All true- the worst crime, though, was the 'slash-and-burn'
destruction of infrastructure so that the industries could never be
practically reconstituted. They mothball battleships; why not
industries? Britain has enough coal-reserves for another 100 years
at least but no longer has the wherewithal to extract it- which is
why we're buying French nuclear-reactors....
> Certainly with cars, the British had never been known for build
> quality and reliability.
So, you could never afford a Roller, eh?
It's interesting however that even
> today British car designers are still amongst the best
> anywhere. Its just the manufacturing side that lets them down.
> In racing the poms are still very good too.
.... yes- I've seen a Holden : -)
> I was talking mainly about engineering tools. Old British
> lathes, mills and machines generally were simply made to a
> higher fit and finish 40 years ago. Same story with hand tools.
> In fact there is quite a market for second hand tools now.
> Nostalgia might be a factor but quite a few people simply
> prefer using gear that was designed by people who actually used
> it themselves rather than some prick with a degree in cost
> cutting.
All true- the worst crime, though, was the 'slash-and-burn'
destruction of infrastructure so that the industries could never be
practically reconstituted. They mothball battleships; why not
industries? Britain has enough coal-reserves for another 100 years
at least but no longer has the wherewithal to extract it- which is
why we're buying French nuclear-reactors....
"a harmless drudge, that busies himself in tracing the original, and detailing the
signification...."
signification...."
Re: British Economy is Mainly Services
jj wrote:
(snip)
> So, you could never afford a Roller, eh?
Er, well....of course I could. Its just that I'm concerned about that environment thingy. But when most people think of Rollers they think of the classic early 60's Silver Cloud or similar rather than the ugly house brick design they have now.
> It's interesting however that even
> > today British car designers are still amongst the best
> > anywhere. Its just the manufacturing side that lets them
> down.
> > In racing the poms are still very good too.
> .... yes- I've seen a Holden : -)
Like most Aussies over 40, I have owned a Holden or two. The older ones certainly rusted and drank petrol and were very basic but they were easy to fix - which was just as well. Holden is a division of General Motors and we simply got scaled down versions of gigantic yank tanks to begin with. The current 'main model' is the Commodore which I think is huge and ugly.
(snip)
> All true- the worst crime, though, was the 'slash-and-burn'
> destruction of infrastructure so that the industries could
> never be
> practically reconstituted. They mothball battleships; why not
> industries? Britain has enough coal-reserves for another 100
> years
> at least but no longer has the wherewithal to extract it- which
> is why we're buying French nuclear-reactors....
It must be a piss off to have to rely on another country for something as basic as power supply technology. I am sure the Brits used to build reactors themselves.
A lot of American machinists I have heard say the same thing about their industrial base. They look back at the moon landing days and wonder if they even still have all the industries left that could accomplish a similar feat. They too have lost a lot of manufacturing clout to China.
(snip)
> So, you could never afford a Roller, eh?
Er, well....of course I could. Its just that I'm concerned about that environment thingy. But when most people think of Rollers they think of the classic early 60's Silver Cloud or similar rather than the ugly house brick design they have now.
> It's interesting however that even
> > today British car designers are still amongst the best
> > anywhere. Its just the manufacturing side that lets them
> down.
> > In racing the poms are still very good too.
> .... yes- I've seen a Holden : -)
Like most Aussies over 40, I have owned a Holden or two. The older ones certainly rusted and drank petrol and were very basic but they were easy to fix - which was just as well. Holden is a division of General Motors and we simply got scaled down versions of gigantic yank tanks to begin with. The current 'main model' is the Commodore which I think is huge and ugly.
(snip)
> All true- the worst crime, though, was the 'slash-and-burn'
> destruction of infrastructure so that the industries could
> never be
> practically reconstituted. They mothball battleships; why not
> industries? Britain has enough coal-reserves for another 100
> years
> at least but no longer has the wherewithal to extract it- which
> is why we're buying French nuclear-reactors....
It must be a piss off to have to rely on another country for something as basic as power supply technology. I am sure the Brits used to build reactors themselves.
A lot of American machinists I have heard say the same thing about their industrial base. They look back at the moon landing days and wonder if they even still have all the industries left that could accomplish a similar feat. They too have lost a lot of manufacturing clout to China.
Phwooorr...look at her....CRASH
Re: British Economy is Mainly Services
>Well, we all know who to blame for that.
>Idiot unions, and insane Thatcher.
The labour party shut more mines than the tories did.
But every one seems to forget that.
>Idiot unions, and insane Thatcher.
The labour party shut more mines than the tories did.
But every one seems to forget that.
Re: British Economy is Mainly Services
That's only a partial argument. I don't know the answer to this, but you'd have to look at the size of the mines eg number of employees, volume of production/output related to each mine in order to get a better picture of which party was more destructive in terms of closures.