Just got back from being otherwise engaged and read the recent stuff regarding "is gonzo dead" and the Dibble vs OEJ stuff.
I am sick and tired of posting about lack of spontaneity (I know its spelled wrong but its late) etc in porn so I will not go over the old points that have been raised by other posters aswell as myself regarding eroticism or in Dibbles case 1940`s clothing and his campaign to revive words such as "groovy" "hip" and "dig it man".
Instead of producers bitching at each other or as in Bens case blaming the lack of british hard-ons for his increasingly tiresome product. How about giving us some examples of this porn that you all claim nobody else can make as well as yourselves.
I am not joking when I say I get a bigger erection watching Top Of The Pops that looking at the tired old shite porn being spewed out these days.
Must admit I liked Terrys fancy video effects on the last one of his I saw, I like One Eyed Jacks stuff in the same way that I loved Bens stuff five years ago. But other than that its the same old stuff we keep getting served up. UK producers see what the yanks are producing and copy it because they want to sell units in the USA. Has it not occured to them that if they were a bit more original and refused to be compromised by the big money US scene that in turn their different and original styles would become huge hits even amongst the jaded US viewership.
I can hear Ben saying "Bullshit, tell that to VCA!" and other producers exercising the same caution and avoiding straying from the USA way of doing things because they want to sell in USA but I bet US punters are just as sick of "Gaping Gas-Holes 3454" as we are. We have no voice. Producers think they know what the punters want but they dont. They confuse it with what AVN tells them is popular. Oh! What the hell america obviously knows best so lets just follow them (watch out Iraq-we dont have a mind of our own we just follow the USA). First time in my life thaat I wished I was a Frog or a Hun.
Producers
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buttsie
o/t Re: Producers
You're right Magoo about the format being stale but the reality is everybody today is looking short term.With that in mind the USA market is where the money is and until that changes nothing else will.
I saw a documentary yesterday that said Porn in the USA is in for a rocky road with the Bush/Ashcroft team planning to attack it.They were just about to start arresting the more extreme vid producers when september 11 happened.They painted a rosy picture under the Clinton administration but now......?
The future is uncertain,so producers aren't about to experiment
and possibly bite the hand that is feeding it.
The head of Vivid actually said the two growth areas were Internet paysites and the selling of Porn via cable TV to hotel chains-the perfect place for Gonzo porn for the travelling businessman.
Just pray that the Democrats defeat the republicans in the next USA election.
cheers
B...OZ
I saw a documentary yesterday that said Porn in the USA is in for a rocky road with the Bush/Ashcroft team planning to attack it.They were just about to start arresting the more extreme vid producers when september 11 happened.They painted a rosy picture under the Clinton administration but now......?
The future is uncertain,so producers aren't about to experiment
and possibly bite the hand that is feeding it.
The head of Vivid actually said the two growth areas were Internet paysites and the selling of Porn via cable TV to hotel chains-the perfect place for Gonzo porn for the travelling businessman.
Just pray that the Democrats defeat the republicans in the next USA election.
cheers
B...OZ
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John Mason
Re: Producers
I agree with a lot of your points, but in defence of the producers (most of them anyway), the probelm they face is that they are working on tight budgets with small profit margins, and normally quite a long wait to see even that meager return.
This being the case you can understand why they are less likely to make 'ground breaking' product.
I myself have tried to do this and so far it's cost me several thousand pounds with no return. Fortunatly I had the money to indulge myself, but nearly all the other producers don't have that luxury.
Not to be put off, I've tried again to make something a little bit different, and again I've put my money where my mouth was. Hopefully in the next month or so I'll be posting details about the said project and I'll sit back and expect to get 'panned', but the bottom line is that I'm prepared to take a chance, and Bush and the rest of the Yanks can go fuck themselves, because I'm going to make these movies 'internet only' sales!
This being the case you can understand why they are less likely to make 'ground breaking' product.
I myself have tried to do this and so far it's cost me several thousand pounds with no return. Fortunatly I had the money to indulge myself, but nearly all the other producers don't have that luxury.
Not to be put off, I've tried again to make something a little bit different, and again I've put my money where my mouth was. Hopefully in the next month or so I'll be posting details about the said project and I'll sit back and expect to get 'panned', but the bottom line is that I'm prepared to take a chance, and Bush and the rest of the Yanks can go fuck themselves, because I'm going to make these movies 'internet only' sales!
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Ace
Re: Producers
Excellent points and certainly makes intresting reading instead of some of the drivvel posted here recently. Nice one lads!
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Matt
Re: Producers
Isn't the debate here about arousal vs profit? If I was a producer, unless I had a stack of cash already, I wouldn't give a shit about expanding the frontiers of porn into new and unchartered territory. I'd just want to make money out of it. From the creator of pornography's point of view, it is a money making venture; a commercial excercise. Now there may be a few exceptions to this, but I simply cannot imagine a group of producers sitting down before hand to debate whether their product is truly creative and original enough to warrant production - not outside of profitability anyway.
The producers want to make the stuff that sells best so they make the most money. The punters want to buy stuff that arouses them the most. Now logically, you would assume that means the producers want to make stuff that arouses the punters the most, but as I see it, a problem with porn today is that producers lose sight of that. Some of these pornographers just see the dollar signs in their eyes and start churning out the same old stuff cos the first one sold well. This is why we see 'Gag Factor #231' etc - now if something aint broke, don't fix it, but what does this say for the future of the industry?
The future of porn (which is too general a term given how fragmented the whole thing is now) will rely on market forces. This is pretty obvious. Major studios will generally churn out what they see selling well. Occasionally they'll try something new just to see if it works. If it becomes popular (the interactive point of view stuff, for example - eg. the 'My Plaything' series) then it'll be the direction they follow.
I used to think that if you wanted to help change the direction of porn from a money driven purely capitalist trade to something other then that, write to the producers and try something new yourself. Well that isn't going to work. Now I'm of the opinion that if you really want to help drive the direction of the industry (or your favourite little part of it), just buy a shitload of your favourite stuff.
The producers want to make the stuff that sells best so they make the most money. The punters want to buy stuff that arouses them the most. Now logically, you would assume that means the producers want to make stuff that arouses the punters the most, but as I see it, a problem with porn today is that producers lose sight of that. Some of these pornographers just see the dollar signs in their eyes and start churning out the same old stuff cos the first one sold well. This is why we see 'Gag Factor #231' etc - now if something aint broke, don't fix it, but what does this say for the future of the industry?
The future of porn (which is too general a term given how fragmented the whole thing is now) will rely on market forces. This is pretty obvious. Major studios will generally churn out what they see selling well. Occasionally they'll try something new just to see if it works. If it becomes popular (the interactive point of view stuff, for example - eg. the 'My Plaything' series) then it'll be the direction they follow.
I used to think that if you wanted to help change the direction of porn from a money driven purely capitalist trade to something other then that, write to the producers and try something new yourself. Well that isn't going to work. Now I'm of the opinion that if you really want to help drive the direction of the industry (or your favourite little part of it), just buy a shitload of your favourite stuff.
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buttsie
Re: Producers
Like you say-know what you like and buy it.
What you don't like-ignore it
if Gonzos gone stale don't buy it
The ultimate for mine would be a Marc Dorcel
production with the best british talent available-I do so hate dubbed soundtracks.
At the end of the day if the investors aren't putting in the bucks you can't make vids like that.
One interesting point about the Barely Legal Series.In the doco 'Porn In The USA',it said that the series so far had amassed a profit of Ten Million Dollars-they seem to have found their market.Thats covering Soft Cable TV,Hard Videos,Internet Paysites & Magazine Appearances all from shoots that take one day and earn the girl between $USD1000 & $USD1500 depending on how far they are prepared to go-our old friend Mr Anal.
cheers
B...OZ
What you don't like-ignore it
if Gonzos gone stale don't buy it
The ultimate for mine would be a Marc Dorcel
production with the best british talent available-I do so hate dubbed soundtracks.
At the end of the day if the investors aren't putting in the bucks you can't make vids like that.
One interesting point about the Barely Legal Series.In the doco 'Porn In The USA',it said that the series so far had amassed a profit of Ten Million Dollars-they seem to have found their market.Thats covering Soft Cable TV,Hard Videos,Internet Paysites & Magazine Appearances all from shoots that take one day and earn the girl between $USD1000 & $USD1500 depending on how far they are prepared to go-our old friend Mr Anal.
cheers
B...OZ
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Matt
Re: Producers o/t
Amazing figures. A thousand dollars for a series that's making ten million? And who said porn isn't explitative...
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watters
o/t Re: Producers (and Gonzo) (and what is preferr
I noticed some statistics the other day on movies being downloaded from, shall we say, unofficial sites. These perhaps give some indication of what punters are looking for, given a free choice, so to speak.
The most popular series downloads _by far_ were Barely Legal and Where the Boy's Aren't. In third place, movies with/by Rocco. Fourth most popular - homemade / amateur movies. Anal oriented movies in general came in fifth, what I would term as Gonzo types movies came sixth.
American movies had the same overall popularity as European. From Europe, German and French movies reigned supreme. Popular producers were John Stagliano and Marc Dorcel.
Generally, as genre, the teen / first time / castings type movies were _way way_ out in front with amateur and homemade series (BangBus, MILF Hunter, Girls Gone Wild, Sexy Couple, etc.) and celebrity movies (Pamela Anderson, etc.) following behind.
The "extreme" movies (Max Hardcore, Slap Happy, bukkake, gangbang etc.) were not that high up the list. Vivid productions were very low down. Finally 70s and 80s movies featured quite highly.
The most popular series downloads _by far_ were Barely Legal and Where the Boy's Aren't. In third place, movies with/by Rocco. Fourth most popular - homemade / amateur movies. Anal oriented movies in general came in fifth, what I would term as Gonzo types movies came sixth.
American movies had the same overall popularity as European. From Europe, German and French movies reigned supreme. Popular producers were John Stagliano and Marc Dorcel.
Generally, as genre, the teen / first time / castings type movies were _way way_ out in front with amateur and homemade series (BangBus, MILF Hunter, Girls Gone Wild, Sexy Couple, etc.) and celebrity movies (Pamela Anderson, etc.) following behind.
The "extreme" movies (Max Hardcore, Slap Happy, bukkake, gangbang etc.) were not that high up the list. Vivid productions were very low down. Finally 70s and 80s movies featured quite highly.
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EC
Re: Producers
Its always going to come down to money and time.
Last weekend I was filming a 30 minute video. Just less than two thirds of the video included dialogue (the rest obviously is sex), requiring the girls to memorise lines to do with the story, build up, and yes even some character development. But what takes up less than two thirds of the film takes up two thirds of a full day in filming time.
As someone who has worked in making regular feature films and drama it was a good day of shooting compared to what you would film on a non-porn shoot. But I can imagine that a lot of producers just cannot afford the time and luxury of filming for hours just dialogue scenes.
Last weekend I was filming a 30 minute video. Just less than two thirds of the video included dialogue (the rest obviously is sex), requiring the girls to memorise lines to do with the story, build up, and yes even some character development. But what takes up less than two thirds of the film takes up two thirds of a full day in filming time.
As someone who has worked in making regular feature films and drama it was a good day of shooting compared to what you would film on a non-porn shoot. But I can imagine that a lot of producers just cannot afford the time and luxury of filming for hours just dialogue scenes.
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buttsie
Re: Producers o/t
At the time of the doco they were up to number barely legal no 23
Not that I've looked but theres usually 4/5 girls on a tape.
would be interesting to know exactly how much a vid/shoot costs all up to put the 10 million into perspective.Even if each vids cost was $USD40000 thats still 9million profit...makes the mind boggle.
Then the girl looks at it on the surface and says I could work 7 days a week at Mc Donalds for $USD350 or work for one/two/three days doing something I like for $USD1000 to $USD4500.
Its true without the girls the companies wouldn't have a product too sell but the money is fairly generous.
Your not suggesting they should be on royalties.
I'm sure the lucky ones who have a contract have some sort of arrangment.
cheers
B...OZ
Not that I've looked but theres usually 4/5 girls on a tape.
would be interesting to know exactly how much a vid/shoot costs all up to put the 10 million into perspective.Even if each vids cost was $USD40000 thats still 9million profit...makes the mind boggle.
Then the girl looks at it on the surface and says I could work 7 days a week at Mc Donalds for $USD350 or work for one/two/three days doing something I like for $USD1000 to $USD4500.
Its true without the girls the companies wouldn't have a product too sell but the money is fairly generous.
Your not suggesting they should be on royalties.
I'm sure the lucky ones who have a contract have some sort of arrangment.
cheers
B...OZ