Amateur or Professional!

[mybeautifultease]

I wanted to seek clarification with this posting as what the majority of BGAFD users considers to be Amateur or Professional work and how you determine weather an individual is pro or amateur.

[Background to the post]
I started shooting a little over three years ago, hiring my first model from Purestorm and shooting her to nude in a rented apartment in central Manchester. My first shoot was simply to grab some images, get the experience of shooting a model and generally to see whether I liked it. I did and I rapidly booked a second, a third and a fourth model and steadily invested in professional level gear - the only thing to have changed from my first shoot was that I now had a goal of setting up my pay site and adult business.

Until my pay site was established last year I was publishing content to a free site as a portfolio which I have now taken offline.

I have picked up though from various forums and models that I would still be considered amateur. Even though I am running a paysite, releasing VOD content and selling content - I would have thought those elements would have added a professional level to my efforts but apparently not.

Once my paysite was established I would have thought that my status would change from amateur to professional but that doesn't appear to the case.
[/Background to the post]

How do you determine the professional status of someone in this biz?
Is it as black and white as I think it should be or is it more blurry than that?

I Would be happy to hear your thoughts and suggestions

[TheDonkeyWork]

If you are shooting material for commercial gain and publication I would consider that "professional".

There are probably different shades of "professional" but the essential requirements are fulfilled - commercial gain and publication.

[paul jones]

Generally models will consider you professional if you can show them that you publish your work.

In particular, that you publish work at the level you want them to do - so if you want gonzo POV, you had best show them that your site is full of gonzo POV

[videokim]

If you earn money from your work you are in sense a Pro, what you will find in the adult industry people will class themselves Am or Pro depending on what they spend, equipment they use & who they can afford to hire setting different levels among themselves.
We started as real amateurs making at least 5-6 films before we ever thought we could earn money & built up a big following among the swinging set who preferred amateur films to gloss, years down the line we still use average recording gear, real people & real settings opposed to studio's, HD cameras & well known stars.
Because of the hard work it takes doing these big glossy shoots we think of these producers more of Pro's than us, also there are massive amateur porn stars that don't even get mentioned on here because they have not had films released on R18 etc.
If you find a niche Am or Pro keep to it...if its not broke don't fix & if you are happy don't chase rainbows because you will find you already have them.

[one eyed jack]

You sound professional enough to me!

If you are making money or trying to from your site then i still consider this professional...If not then I guess the shady blurry bit is you are semi professional.

If you are also paying models the going rate and not the amateur rate of nothing but tfp then you are amateur acting professional (if that makes sense)

I was told I was professional when Your Choice stopped buying in my contributions to Viewers Wives and I shot my OEJ series with them.

It seemed the customers determined that I was professional though back then it was a lot more blurry than it was now

[Gaslight]

My personal view is, if you're solely dependant on the income then your pro....if not then your an amateur having their jollies. (that is not a criticism btw).

Tbh, it doesn't really matter either way so long as you pay the models the going rate and more importantly, you treat them respectfully.....and if it's interaction content then you get make sure everyone is certed....are you listening you muppets??!!

[one eyed jack]

Kermit says "Aye"....Miss Piggy has a glazed look on her face.

[SpannerProductions]

Hi Paul,

It does get all kinda cloudy doesnt it.

As a photographer I'm an Amateur based on the popular definition that I havent had anything published - but I consider myself semi-professional in that I am taking Pictures(gathering content) to earn from it - so does that make me professional .............
As a Producer, again I havent filmed anything yet that has been viewed mainstream, but clips etc have earnt a few beer tokens so does that make me a professional - but my first 'real' production will be shown on a amateur channel if i'm lucky so does that make me a professional amatuer
my website is under construction at the moment (has been sadly for a while.lol) but once its up and running, it will (hopefully) make a few bob for all involved therefore making me a professional - the pics and film content being filmed by definition is still amatuer - jesus h christ , this sounded better in my head..........(most things do !grin!)

I think i'll just stick with an earlier statement that roughly said something like.....

Its all a state of mind and and approach

if you make good content,use good gear, pay the right fees , model rates etc etc for the purpose of selling to the paying public - regardless of how you are viewed by others - amatuer or professional - you are professional.

if your dipping your toes in for a bit of naughty fun and a few memories to have a five fingered shuffle over every now and again - you are an amatuer.

IMO, I think..............??????!surrender!

[sparky]

Gaslight wrote

My personal view is, if you're solely dependant on the income then your pro....if not then your an amateur having their jollies. (that is not a criticism btw).

and Paul Bergman wrote

I suppose traditionally "professional" = doing it for money/profit, and "amateur" = doing it for fun.

However, these days it is so easy to get a website, and indeed, a lot of people I think basically shoot conent just for the fun/turn on/sexual release, and also publish it just to get a bit of their money back. (Especially on eg Adult Work.)

Are they "amateur" or "pro?"

To me the first line of Paul's post has it right regardless of if the income is the bread and butter or jam on the bread and butter as suggested by Gaslight.

Also an amateur can be very experienced and a professional a beginner.

I have thought a few times about paying model release and selling photosets and video clips on Adultwork as if successful I could afford models currently out of my league and/or who choose not to work with amateurs. I could also justify buying better equipment.

However I think it would take the fun away as the priority would become ensuring sufficient shoots and variety of content for regular updates to keeps the punters interested.
Hence for the foreseeable future I am keeping to shoots within my funds just for fun.