UK Porn

[David Lever]

Hi, Yes I love the 70's and 80's porn too. The girls always wore sexy outfits and looked like they were genuinely enjoying themselves. The guys (leaving aside garish flares and goaty beards) at least looked like normal guys and not body builders of dubious sexuality.

Officer Dibble, we are of the same view in terms of a glimpse of stocking top and fluttering skirts, I use this kind of image all the time. I thought I was a bit old fashioned in this department.Another thing I love is smiling girls rather than pouting girls which is the standard look for every God Damn image in every magazine and every other TV show (apart from mine). The trouble is the images we are supposed to find sexy are chosen by the people who work for these mags, who have a set in stone idea, of what we men out there are supposed to find sexy. For example I like Kelly Brook because she's sexy, smiles a lot and is a bit daft. But seeing her photographed for a calender, she had lost all these qualities, they'd caked her in makeup and made her pout and look sultry and thereby lost 100% of her appeal.Regards David
Also have you thought of taking up erotic writing for mags? LOL

[Officer Dibble]

"Officer Dibble, we are of the same view in terms of a glimpse of stocking top and fluttering skirts, I use this kind of image all the time. I thought I was a bit old fashioned in this department."

Some may say that Dave, but they are the ones that 'do not get it.' In many areas of life things evolve and change - clothes, cars, culture, etc - to fit in with the times. But human physiology only changes on much larger timescales. So the combinations of sounds, smells, images and tactile sensations that make us feel horny are pre-programmed into us and cannot really be changed. So problems arise when some thrusting young producers come along and think "all that teasing and stocking top stuff is so 1970's' I'll shoot something different, more 'edgy' and give out the vibe that this is what 21st century adult video buyers SHOULD be finding exciting and desirable. But sex is not subject to fashion, it's fixed in our biology, you cannot tell the punter that they want this new stuff and that they really should be digging it if thy wish to be seen as cool and trendy. This approach will only work on those who are easily suggestible.

"The trouble is the images we are supposed to find sexy are chosen by the people who work for these mags, who have a set in stone idea, of what we men out there are supposed to find sexy."

This is an interesting point Dave. Have you noticed all those naff lads mags on the middle shelf of W H Smiths? Have you noticed how stupefyingly bland and sexless all the cover girls look? There's a definite agenda in play here to put a certain type of girl on the cover, or make a girl look like 'a lads mag cover girl.' This kind of look can broadly be characterised by the girls being thin, with little evidence of tits and bums (a hugely important area with regard to the male libido) they generally wear no make up and have a straight, plastered down or hacked-off hairstyle. Any garments worn are usually very plain bikinis - which suggests a sporting beach feel. This is opposed to the traditional 'dollied up' sexy lingerie look - which suggests that the girl is amenable to SEX and indeed has made great effort to look alluring and get her man. This was recently illustrated when Kate Winslet (a curvaceous English rose) was featured on one of the mag covers and they digitally slimed her down to look like some sexless, androgynous, Belsen victim. What was all that about, hey? So there is an Agenda at work here. An agenda to de-sexualize the girls. Whether it is cultural, political, commercial, or a combination of all three, I'm not sure. But what am sure of is that it is monumentally naff!

There are many in publishing that haven?t got a clue about anything and just go with the flow. If you pull then up they will say "But it's what the punters seem to want" The fact is that they haven?t got the foggiest what the punters want (and neither have the punters for that matter.) Punters on the whole don't know what they want, but they do know what they like when they see it. The upshot is that unimaginative, commercially orientated, publishers just publish the kind of stuff that everyone else is. And because everyone else is publishing it, when they are put on the spot, the unimaginative lazy producer/publisher can say, without much fear of contradiction and having to justify themselves "Err... well, it's what the public wants."

?Also have you thought of taking up erotic writing for mags? LOL?

Erotic writing? Well, if anyone was to liberally cross my palm with silver I?d certainly have a stab, or should that be thrust? Oohh, er, Missus.


Officer Dibble

[andy ide]

Nice and refreshing this thread. I think hardcore is still best because as a director you have the choice to show what you want. But the words 'hardcore' and 'erotic' are not mutually incompatible. Like David, I only shoot softcore when I do stuff for TVX because if you try to get hardcore as well you just mess things up. But I look forward to doing hardcore as and when that happens because I still there's a strong market out there for 3-dimensional hardcore.

Bottom line as a director or photographer is to shoot what turns you on. And doing the latest series of Planet Nadia, which TVX are showing at the moment, I found myself really getting into camera positions that showed the girls' bodies in a really beautiful and 'natural' light. Just curves in the light, the whisper of a girl's sexual excitement. Fantastic. (Helped that Nadia made all 5 girls come bless her.)

Only thing I can't get that I really, really want is pubic hair! Where did it all go!!? Bring it back! When did the idea of the GIRL replace the idea of the WOMAN?

[Officer Dibble]

"Only thing I can't get that I really, really want is pubic hair! Where did it all go!!? Bring it back! When did the idea of the GIRL replace the idea of the WOMAN?"

Tell me about it man. It's doing my head in. It's an idiotic fashion fad that's totally counter-erotic to most guys. The only guys who are happy with the status-quo are those that dig the er, 'younger look.' Most of the letters I get nowadays commenting on videos are from guys bemoaning this depressing trend. It's a common thread. Regular guys say they want real women, not pretentious porn tarts. This is one of the main reasons that I am going off the whole scene. In Britain today you don't even seem to have the option of hiring natural girls, they all seem to be affected in varying degrees by the American originated porn trash look. A look that is spreading up the age range (shaved tattooed grannies for Christ sake?) and now into Eastern Europe. Unfortunately, those are not the kind of movies I feel any inclination to make or view and my postbag indicates many long standing porn consumers, who know what they want, feel the same.

I fear things will not change until lairy tarts like Jordan and Divi Spice announce that 'bushes' are now cool and that they are actively consulting expensive Harley street 'Bush Gurus' in an effort to attain the requisite emotional, psychological and biological lightness of being that will promote the growth of a truly magnificent minge! Then on the next tedious edition of 'I'm A Pop-Tart Get Me Out Of Here' maybe the 'Current Bun' could hype up the tension, suggesting that tonight might be the night when Jordan flashes her bush! Maybe they could run a few 'Full Bush' features - "Girls, You To Could Have A Bush Like A Celebrity! Our intrepid reporter Mary Minge gets you the 'low-down." I mean, that's all it would take. Not that I'm suggesting that today?s young women are suggestible, vacuous airheads, devoid of individuality and imagination and susceptible to the machinations of various cynical media concerns. Of course not.

Officer Dibble

[Deuce Bigolo]

For once I agree with you Office Dibble

The whole removal of all bodily hair is big business

Totally unnecessary IMHO

Again clever marketing makes another generation part with their hard earned cash for no good reason other than keeping up with the latest fad

The fitness/diet industry have been pulling a similar scam along the lines that 'Voluptuous/big/plump is Unhealthy'with some serious consequences

We won't be returning to images like those seen at

girl of the week galleries anytime soon

cheers
B....OZ

[David Lever]

To continue this debate, the problem is at the moment alot of producers are obsessed with the "Holly Oaks Look", that is to say all models must be blonde and false looking and ideally caked with an inch of makeup. I've worked on shoots (not my own) where girls have arrived looking fresh and natural, they are then handed over to the make-up artist, who, under instruction from the producer, single-handedly transforms them into cheap two-bit whores who look like they've spent the night doing tricks on Hollywood Boulevard.
I must admit I have a total ban on make-up artists and are proud to say have never used one on any shoot of mine. If a girl arrives caked in make-up I have her scrubbed up immediately, with a sponge and a bar of Johnson's Carbolic!
It is unfortunate that the Yanks, who make the worst porn shit on earth, material of excrutiating naffness, have the biggest influence on how the porn world is controlled.Mind you the Germans and Swedish are just as bad, look at Dolly Buster! or maybe better not! These people think British porn is shit. One Big Fat German distributer (with handlebar moustache) once looked at my hardcore stuff and said, "Ziss ist shit, it iss ass bad ass Bendover!"..................I thought what an accolade, my stuff must be brilliant, thanks Shultz!
So in my opinion, you can't beat scrubbed- up, British girls, most of them are silicon free and they have great personalities and leave, Eastern Europeans and Yanks for dead!
Regards David

[Officer Dibble]

Yeah, regarding where models get there ideas from. We once placed an ad for adult models in some London rag and got a luke warm response. But I remember one of the replies was from a girl who breathlessly announced that she was definitely the girl for the job, as she was slim, she had enhanced boobies, a shaved minge "erotic piercings" and strategically placed tattoos. So, I'm like, AAAGGGGHHHH!!! She had just reeled off just about everything I detest in an adult model. A full house in fact. But the thing is she was absolutely convinced that this is what prospective employers (producer/photographer) would want to hear. Where had she got this idea from? She obviously hadn't done any in depth research asking photographers, producers and agents what they ideally want from a model because most professionals would say they want a blank canvas so that they could project onto her the artist vision they had for that particular shoot. Many photographers and producers may have quietly acquiesced to the American porn trash tart look (big mistake) but hardly any would have actively encouraged it. Which means that she took her cues from the odd porn videos she had seen and as you say Magoo, how other so called adult models were carrying on.

Many forumites might get the impression that I don't like gonzo full stop. Not so. I lapped up early Buttman and the first half dozen Ben Dovers. But as Magoo points out they were very different entities to what they have metamorphosed into today. The early models were professional, girly, pretty and coy. It seemed to take ages for Ben or Buttman to tease out a glimpse of tit, bum or fanny, which made the viewers appetite ever greater. The girls gave off the sense that they were 'nice girls.' Girls who did not expose their tits, bums and fannys lightly, or share their delights with any Tom, Dick or Harry. Of course it's this teasing combined with the sense that models were special and desirable then that makes one look back so nostalgically.

Wait till I tell Horny Harry that he has had a name check on the bgafd. He will be well chuffed that his work has finally received the recognition it so richly deserves. Once again Magoo has proved himself to be Britain's premier critic of all matters adult, and to have his finger on the pulse of the entertainment counter culture.

Right, must shoot. Off out for the day.


Latter,


Officer Dibble

[Paul Tavener]

Just incase there was any doubt I would also add my vote 100% for the more natural look - little or no makeup, real tits, real bush and no tatoos, rings, clips, chains or other ironmongery.

[joannajet]

Hi,

I do not consider the R18 censorship standards to overly restrictive and are now very close to what is admissible in the US (apart from female ejaculation and public nudity). Barring fisting and watersports, most of the restrictions are based around non-consentual sex which will always be a difficult to condone by anyone acting on behalf of the "public interest".

As a producer, whilst the fee is always a tough pill to swallow, the R18 certificate I get in return gives me the comfort that I am on legal safe ground and that is a very good thing.
In contrast, whenever I or other fellow US producers release an adult title in America which contains content that rides a little close to the edge, we have to accept that at any time the FBI could come crashing through the office door, seize all assets and freeze the company bank accounts.

Any producer upon which this unfortunate event befalls must then personally finance a federal court battle with the state, which leads at best, to having the business re-instated after many months or at worst, to having all company assets seized and being faced with personal bankruptcy from court costs.

At least with the BBFC, being bordeline means no more than a slap on the wrist and a re-edit and only after I have had the chance to argue my case (which I sometimes win!).

Many see "R18" has an infringement. I see it as the chance to produce in a black and white "no risk" world.


What is really fucking up UK porn is not R18, but the completely screwed-up legal and civil regulations surrounding consumer sales. Until there is a substantial increase in availability (whether retail or mail order) of hardcore porn to joe public, the UK porn industry will remain a back-street low budget industry.


I tell it as I see it.


Kiss kiss,


Joanna Jet
xxx