Government has no right arrogating to itself jurisdiction in matters of moral or aesthetic judgment. These decisions can only ever be made on an individual basis and therefore it is illogical to refer them to a collective.
The maturity of a socirty is usually best measured by the amount of freedom (or more properly, licence) it grants its citizens.
Kelly's Way to love - passed by BBFC!
-
jj
Re: Kelly's Way to love - passed by BBFC!
There's nothing wrong with eating spam sandwiches either, but I wouldn't want to eat them every day of my life.
Please engage brain next time.
Please engage brain next time.
-
Buttsie Non Do Gooder
Re: Kelly's Way to love - passed by BBFC!
The fact is this type of porn will be made wether its legal/illegal sold black market.
In my view nothing but child porn vids should be outlawed.
legalise it and collect the taxes.(put that raised revenue to good use).
If you don't like don't watch it(pretty simple I think).
I occasionally get emails from rape sites doesn't do anything for me so I delete it,end of story.
Cheers
Buttsie
South Australia
In my view nothing but child porn vids should be outlawed.
legalise it and collect the taxes.(put that raised revenue to good use).
If you don't like don't watch it(pretty simple I think).
I occasionally get emails from rape sites doesn't do anything for me so I delete it,end of story.
Cheers
Buttsie
South Australia
-
Matt
Re: Kelly's Way to love - passed by BBFC!
JJ, I do find your pseudo-agressive posts somewhat tiresome. Can you not just make your point without having to add a snipe at at the end? It's not a crime to disagree with you, you know. Personally, I don't give a toss what you watch however I think it's reasonable to assume that most of us would like there to be less censorship providing things are consensual and promote the right values (shock horror - did I really say 'right'? Am I really suggesting that paedophilic fantasy and mock rape is 'wrong' - you're god damn right I am).
Some of the stuff in this thread doesn't sound like it would belong in this category, that's all. It's healthy to have discussion about such things, and dissapointing when folk jump on the "ban all censorship" passive-liberal bandwagon without serious thought, then insult anyone who doesn't agree with them (which equals 'not right' in their mind).
Some of the stuff in this thread doesn't sound like it would belong in this category, that's all. It's healthy to have discussion about such things, and dissapointing when folk jump on the "ban all censorship" passive-liberal bandwagon without serious thought, then insult anyone who doesn't agree with them (which equals 'not right' in their mind).
-
joe king
Re: Kelly's Way to love - passed by BBFC!
'consensual and promote the right values'
one could argue that more films at 18 promote more misogynistic views (and are more violent) than does most porn.
'the right values' - wow, this is the mine field that screwed the conservatives out of power. Approx 3 years ago anal sex in marriage was illegal. Is this good or bad? There is a site called www.domai.com. They seem to use the word 'tasteful' in nausciating way.
Is this just a euphemism for no pubic hair or explicit shots?
Matt - Why do you think paedophilic fantasy and mock rape is 'wrong'? Will it cause an increase in paedophilia and rape?
one could argue that more films at 18 promote more misogynistic views (and are more violent) than does most porn.
'the right values' - wow, this is the mine field that screwed the conservatives out of power. Approx 3 years ago anal sex in marriage was illegal. Is this good or bad? There is a site called www.domai.com. They seem to use the word 'tasteful' in nausciating way.
Is this just a euphemism for no pubic hair or explicit shots?
Matt - Why do you think paedophilic fantasy and mock rape is 'wrong'? Will it cause an increase in paedophilia and rape?
-
jj the prude
Re: Kelly's Way to love - passed by BBFC!
Matt, I'm sorry you feel that I'm attacking you: I'm not (I think you mean CRYPTO-aggressive, BTW), but if you produce meaninglessly throwaway lines like the above you must expect some adverse comment. The setting-up of a Straw Man such as your 'paedophilic fantasy/mock rape' scenario is tendentious: are you suggesting that an individual opinion should be the basis for legislation affecting 60 million individuals?
The trouble with 'comparative censorship' to coin a phrase, is exactly as you've pointed out: that nobody can agree on the limits, since it's ultimately a matter of individual moral choice. Society rightly outlaws certain forms of behaviour as detrimental to Itself, but when It moves into the arena of personal morality then we're on an inevitable descent into fascism. The anodyne media outputs of former Soviet-bloc nations and current religious dictatorships provide chilling examples of this taken to its logical conclusion.
I STEPPED sedately onto what you describe as my 'bandwagon' after many years of thought, and will fight my corner as vigorously as I can. I will not, however, resort to insults and ill-judged labelling, in which context you might like to re-examine the comments in your last para: is it not a little self-contradictory?
The trouble with 'comparative censorship' to coin a phrase, is exactly as you've pointed out: that nobody can agree on the limits, since it's ultimately a matter of individual moral choice. Society rightly outlaws certain forms of behaviour as detrimental to Itself, but when It moves into the arena of personal morality then we're on an inevitable descent into fascism. The anodyne media outputs of former Soviet-bloc nations and current religious dictatorships provide chilling examples of this taken to its logical conclusion.
I STEPPED sedately onto what you describe as my 'bandwagon' after many years of thought, and will fight my corner as vigorously as I can. I will not, however, resort to insults and ill-judged labelling, in which context you might like to re-examine the comments in your last para: is it not a little self-contradictory?
-
Matt
Re: Kelly's Way to love - passed by BBFC!
I'm aware of the problems of using words like 'right' and indeed 'values', however I'm also aware of the problems of the 'do what you like as long as it hurts no one else' which doesn't work either.
Because paedophilia is wrong, and so is rape. If it is established that the two things are wrong (and I hope I'm not going to have to argue my case on that one) then surely fantasising about such things can't be 'good'. I do not accept that they are valid sexual expressions or have any place in a healthy sexual relationship of any sort.
I don't know, do you? I just think that the more space we give such thing in our conciousness in this way, whether we are doing it for real or 'pretending', the more chance we have of being influenced by it. Why bother when there are so many other forms of sexual expression to choose from? Pretending to be a child for the purpose of sexual fantasy is... wrong. Yes, it's subjective, and there it is. I've yet to hear a convincing argument to the contrary.
Because paedophilia is wrong, and so is rape. If it is established that the two things are wrong (and I hope I'm not going to have to argue my case on that one) then surely fantasising about such things can't be 'good'. I do not accept that they are valid sexual expressions or have any place in a healthy sexual relationship of any sort.
I don't know, do you? I just think that the more space we give such thing in our conciousness in this way, whether we are doing it for real or 'pretending', the more chance we have of being influenced by it. Why bother when there are so many other forms of sexual expression to choose from? Pretending to be a child for the purpose of sexual fantasy is... wrong. Yes, it's subjective, and there it is. I've yet to hear a convincing argument to the contrary.
-
joe king
Re: Kelly's Way to love - passed by BBFC!
'whether we are doing it for real or 'pretending', the more chance we have of being influenced by it'
So, the more you see these films the more chance you have of being influenced by it? Is it a gambling game? What do you mean influenced? Influenced to rape and abuse children? Why doesn't seeing people shot, blown up or sliced to bits cause more people to do the same? The film 'The killing of america' has very real action of people being killed(it is amazingly depressing). Should it be banned? If it was was real rape then this would be evidence the police could use to prosecute the people in the videos.
So, the more you see these films the more chance you have of being influenced by it? Is it a gambling game? What do you mean influenced? Influenced to rape and abuse children? Why doesn't seeing people shot, blown up or sliced to bits cause more people to do the same? The film 'The killing of america' has very real action of people being killed(it is amazingly depressing). Should it be banned? If it was was real rape then this would be evidence the police could use to prosecute the people in the videos.
-
jj
Re: Kelly's Way to love - passed by BBFC!
..........as long as you realise that in many Third World societies what we define as paedophilia is looked upon with approbation. The particular society defines the norms of its behaviour. This is NOT to condone it, just an observation to illustrate the dangers of applying the word 'wrong' so loosely.
There is also considerable anecdotal evidence to suggest that the incidence of child abuse is in fact lower now than at any time in the last 400 years: we're just more aware of its existence and more punctilious in exposing and condemning it. Which is as it should be: but I'm not about to leave for South-East Asia or west Africa to start lecturing mature societies about their sexual mores.
I'm also a little concerned at the point in your last para: this sounds a lot like the PC notion that if we don't have a word for a concept, then we can't conceptualise about it; so let's start banning whole groups of words, etc.....bingo! Instant Newspeak.
Pretending to be a child is wrong? Listen to the 'goo-goo' speak young lovers indulge in, the use of the word 'baby' for example: it's an intrinsic part of human courtship that childlike behaviours are recapitulated during it......as for 'schoolgirl/
teacher' games, this is merely a role-play/power game which is benign as long as people treat it for what it is- a bit of fun.
There is also considerable anecdotal evidence to suggest that the incidence of child abuse is in fact lower now than at any time in the last 400 years: we're just more aware of its existence and more punctilious in exposing and condemning it. Which is as it should be: but I'm not about to leave for South-East Asia or west Africa to start lecturing mature societies about their sexual mores.
I'm also a little concerned at the point in your last para: this sounds a lot like the PC notion that if we don't have a word for a concept, then we can't conceptualise about it; so let's start banning whole groups of words, etc.....bingo! Instant Newspeak.
Pretending to be a child is wrong? Listen to the 'goo-goo' speak young lovers indulge in, the use of the word 'baby' for example: it's an intrinsic part of human courtship that childlike behaviours are recapitulated during it......as for 'schoolgirl/
teacher' games, this is merely a role-play/power game which is benign as long as people treat it for what it is- a bit of fun.
-
Matt
Re: Kelly's Way to love - passed by BBFC!
"Is it a gambling game?"
I don't really understand what you mean by that.
"What do you mean influenced?"
I mean more likely to indulge in or be wrongly condoning of behaviour similar to that which you have chosen to let inside your head.
"Influenced to rape and abuse children?"
If that's the sort of stuff you like to watch, that's a possibility. I'm not going to jump through the hoop you apear to be tempting me with and say "those who indulge in mock rape turn out to be racists" because I don't know that they do. But someone who watches or indulges in that particular behaviour allows the concept to be a greater part of their concious life, and I'm suggesting that somewhere along the line, tihngs go from being 'healthy' to 'unhealthy'.
"Why doesn't seeing people shot, blown up or sliced to bits cause more people to do the same?"
Some would suggest that it does, actually. I doubt you can back your claim up with any kind of stastics however there is a wealth of psychological research to indicate that we are influenced by the things we watch. As previously discussed, it's not really possible to contrast cinematic productions with hardcore porn, as one works on the presumption that you hold a certain willing suspension of disbelief, and the other attracts people on the basis that what is happening is real and not faked. There's a whole different psychology going on. If one isn't aware of a concept, one can't be influenced by it.
"The film 'The killing of america' has very real action of people being killed(it is amazingly depressing). Should it be banned?"
I've never seen it, I can't say. Listen, I won't be backed into a corner and have words put in my mouth - I haven't said 'ban this, ban that' and I wouldn't. I just think it might be an idea for us to look at some of our more 'edgy' behaviours and examine if they're healthy. I'd suggest that some of them aren't.
Let me ask you a question... have you ever seen a 'virtual sex' DVD, or a 'my plaything' or something similar? What do you think the attraction is of those videos?
I don't really understand what you mean by that.
"What do you mean influenced?"
I mean more likely to indulge in or be wrongly condoning of behaviour similar to that which you have chosen to let inside your head.
"Influenced to rape and abuse children?"
If that's the sort of stuff you like to watch, that's a possibility. I'm not going to jump through the hoop you apear to be tempting me with and say "those who indulge in mock rape turn out to be racists" because I don't know that they do. But someone who watches or indulges in that particular behaviour allows the concept to be a greater part of their concious life, and I'm suggesting that somewhere along the line, tihngs go from being 'healthy' to 'unhealthy'.
"Why doesn't seeing people shot, blown up or sliced to bits cause more people to do the same?"
Some would suggest that it does, actually. I doubt you can back your claim up with any kind of stastics however there is a wealth of psychological research to indicate that we are influenced by the things we watch. As previously discussed, it's not really possible to contrast cinematic productions with hardcore porn, as one works on the presumption that you hold a certain willing suspension of disbelief, and the other attracts people on the basis that what is happening is real and not faked. There's a whole different psychology going on. If one isn't aware of a concept, one can't be influenced by it.
"The film 'The killing of america' has very real action of people being killed(it is amazingly depressing). Should it be banned?"
I've never seen it, I can't say. Listen, I won't be backed into a corner and have words put in my mouth - I haven't said 'ban this, ban that' and I wouldn't. I just think it might be an idea for us to look at some of our more 'edgy' behaviours and examine if they're healthy. I'd suggest that some of them aren't.
Let me ask you a question... have you ever seen a 'virtual sex' DVD, or a 'my plaything' or something similar? What do you think the attraction is of those videos?