What is "class"? & What "class" are you?

[Officer Dibble]

"*Not inferring WZR is a twat in this case."

Them presumably you are inferring that Officer Dibbs is a twat?

But why? I was only speaking up for my fellow proletarians - telling a few home truths to the middleclass sorts who make out everything is benignly cushty as it is. You're doing just the same thing as other comfortable (dare I say smug?) middleclass leftists - you're sneering and denigrating the aspirations and desires of working folk to better themselves - materialistically or not. You talk the talk of equality, but at the same time you don't want working folk to get ahead. You also assume the mantle of moral superiority (a common middleclass failing) suggesting that the workingman?s pursuit of material comfort is immoral and unlighted. But who are you to judge and say what is immoral and what is not? Working people have a different world view ? why should your middleclass view trump their?s?

Fudgey, do you really think Officer Dibbs enters these frays to big himself up and pretend that he is ?upper class? ? even though I?m always going on about my chavy heritage, chavy exploits, and speaking up for the working man? Or is that just a device to try and neutralize the real stinging point of my attacks ? that the interests and aspirations of the working classes and the middle classes are quite divergent. And that the middle classes are arrogantly imposing their moral values and outlook on those they see as beneath them, or ?differently abled??

And as for our lives and their ?meaning?. Well, don?t we all want to imbue our lives with meaning ? particularly if our lives are ?sad? ones? Would you deny that right to blue collar folk? Would you deny them the right to achieve something on their own and have a taste of the self-respect that achievement, success and winning in any field brings? Or would that be a threat to you and your worldview? Can?t have working people getting to powerful or above themselves ? they might start demanding that government take notice of their small ?c? conservative views, eh?

I agree that "Class is a relic, a memory, an archaelogical, entombed superirioity complex" - which is why the socially concerned, Labour voting, middleclass are so keen to pretend that it doesn?t exist or that it doesn?t matter. They are embarrassed by being middleclass, by being generally superior in intellect and income (sometimes inappropriate income) to those of the lower classes or working classes. They are embarrassed because this directly conflicts with the philosophy of universal equality that they have blithely adopted. People cannot be equal, or of equal ability if, at the same time, they are so obviously not. It does not compute. So the middleclass left gets round this by tying to pretend that class doesn't matter. But it matters a great deal to those who do not have the power, privilege, opportunity and economic means - the lower classes, the working classes. The only time class doesn?t matter is when you're sitting pretty.





Officer Dibble

[fudgeflaps]

"*Not inferring WZR is a twat in this case."

Them presumably you are inferring that Officer Dibbs is a twat?




From that one assumption, you generated four paragraphs- when you were not even a trace of a thought in my head.

If my subsequent comments lead you to believe that I am inferring that you are a twat, that is your opinion- not mine.

[Officer Dibble]

Well, twat or not. I've confronted your viewpoint with issues and alternative viewpoints that you plainly did not consider when you penned your post. So, would you care to address them?





Officer Dibble

[Officer Dibble]

"I think the word you are both searching for is "implying". And plainly, we are both twats - middle class ones at that - if we go by income and aspirations, it seems."

"Implying/inferring"? Hmm, seems there is a subtle difference - thank you for alerting me.

I must say though, I don't feel particularly twatish for wanting a nice, well gardened, gaff in the country.



Officer Dibble

[eroticartist]

Dibble,
I predict that one day the working classes will realise how they are divided and ruled by the ruling class with the middle classes conspiring with their masters. This revolution will come via the internet and the access to uncensored information that it provides. Most kids are clued up and users of the internet and it is the net that they use to educate themselves and not their middle class teachers like Warren.

I think that the Labour Party is finished as a revolutionary movement with most of its middle class members living in Hampstead and other trendy parts of London.

I would always be ready to do my job in a time of revolution and ready to help my class the working class.

Mike.

[fudgeflaps]

At the moment, not really.

I'm very stream-of-consciousness and off-the-top-of-the-head, which may render arguments that can easily be slaughtered. Especially by posters who give threads forensic examination.I presented a pretty spontaneous opinion, as you read, not an "Introduction- Pros- Cons- Conclusion" report. I wasn't exactly impartial either.

Yes, I clearly did not consider the other viewpoints you mention: flippancy on my part? Too engossed in a quick opinion? Couldn't be arsed typing for too long and writing a thesis?

I'll tell you what: I'm a fair person. If what you write is 'fair comment', I'll acknowledge it.

So, instead of addresssing your alternative views, I'll say that the above sentence universally applies.

[eroticartist]

Okay, everybody else except the ruling class and the "Sub- class. There is no working class! What a joke! Proud to be working class.
Freeman.



Class system: Sub-class (BNP-supporting benefit scroungers)
Middle class (virtually everybody else)
Upper class (inherited wealth from aristocracy/business)

[fudgeflaps]

One last point: in this thread, we are defining the class system by wealth and aspiration.

Wasn't the class system that we lovingly refer to not more of a a status symbol of upbringing and lineage as opposed to aspiration and wealth, which was secondary to being born into a family of influence, stature or royalty?

If we are being 'modern' in our assumption of class being based on wealth and aspiration, then isn't that TOTALLY subjective, with a million shades of grey as opposed to threee tiers of lower, middle, upper?

Or.............. I'll set all the snipers up here for a pop if they so wish...............

...........am I just fucking stupid?