32 years in jail for the 'London Fields' duo..

[steve56]

I bet they dont serve 32 years

[steve56]

They wouldnt have shot innocent girl in a que in a shop!David Johnson wrote:

> Ronnie and Reggie will be turning in their graves!
>
> Cheers
> D

[steve56]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12764039

[David Johnson]

Hi
Some of the comments in this thread are of the "ooh aren't these murders awful", "My gran told me that when she was a girl" "it's like a war zone out there" etc etc.

Now I know it is deeply unfashionable on this forum to provide information rather than simply insisting that your opinion is correct, because it is your opinion.

But here we go. Have a gander at this below.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters ... icide.html

So in the late 60's (the halcyon days in Britain according to Guilbert) the homicide rate in England and Wales was about 350. It has been rising steadily so that in 2000 it was approaching 800. However the rate has been dropping of late and in 2010 it was lower as far as I know. Keep in mind that during this period 1967-2001 the population of England and Wales has gone up about 50%. The murder rate in London in 2010 was the lowest it has been since 1978, by the way.

Now every violent death is a tragedy obviously, particularly for friends and family. However the figures suggest that there was a violent death about once a day in the whole of England and Wales in the 60's and now it is just over 2 a day. This increase is hardly enough to justify this "its like downtown Baghdad with people getting bumped off left right and centre" attitude that we frequently hear.

I'll tell you one thing that has changed totally since the 60's and that is the amount of coverage of murders in the TV media. Now if there is a violent death on the likes of BBC News and Sky News, you get it in the headlines on the hour and on the half hour. THen in between you get the interviews witth the detective in charge, the conference with the relations, the lengthy updates on progress, the interviews with the neighbours etc etc etc.

In the 60's the concept of a 24 hr. news channel was totally unknown. YOu got BBC1, ITV1 and possibly BBC2 at that time and that was your lot.

So the homicide rates do not back up the general doom-laden posts in this thread. And finally, the murder rate in the UK is currently similar to what it was in mid-Victorian times when there were very few Johnny Foreigners around.

Sleep well, ya hear!

D

[max_tranmere]

Steve, they didnt just get '32 years' (which would normally mean they are out in 16) they got life and were told they must serve a minimum of 32 years. So they will have to do it.

[max_tranmere]

I dont agree with all of that. We are certainly not a warzone but people being taken-out with sub machine guns whilst queing in a shop is not something you ever expected to see in London. Expected to see in Los Angeles or Mexico City but not here. Also, I'm not sure I agree about the coverage on the news. 20 years ago it was the top story on the national and local news if a gun had been used here, because it was so rare. Now that it happens every single day in London, and in other cities, it gets third or fourth billing on the local news - if that. There is an armed unit of the Met Police now, and there has been for the last few years. They can be called at short notice if something involving guns is occuring. That department didn't exist years ago because gun use was very rare. Also, Operation Trident has at least 300 full-time officers in London as black-on-black gun crime is so rife.

[BRFOT]

"This increase is hardly enough to justify this "its like downtown Baghdad with people getting bumped off left right and centre" attitude that we frequently hear."

How about this increase, recorded gun crime up by 88% in the last decade?

I live in a provincial town and 4 people have been shot dead here in the last year with many other incidents all drug/gang related, its things like this that make people feel society is breaking down, you don't need to be directly affected.

[frankthring]

Britain has just about the toughest gun laws in the world. Murder by
gun is vastly lower in UK than in a gun culture society like the USA.....
But criminals still acquire them and, as you say Max, the trend to use
them indiscriminately is on the rise....
I know I am a dinosaur but for premeditated (ie planned) murder like
this, I would restore capital punishment for the swines..... Society has
gone soft on professional criminals and thugs. I would, in fairness, do
away with majority jury verdicts too. I am sure dear old David Johnson
will tell me capital punishment is "inhumane" and there have been
"hanging errors". I would reply that it is too too inhumane to let thugs
like this live in any society....and if you look closely at the hanging "errors"
they have been remarkably few. Even Mr Justice Brabin after a lengthy
review of the Christie-Evans case concluded they were both murderers
(though the latter was hung for the wrong murder, a fact invariably
ignored by abolitionists).